8 comments

  • 5pl1n73r 2 hours ago
    Ah, blockchains, where people realize all those "it doesn't matter bugs" with 3 layers of indirection due to shaky primitives, actually matter. Other bugs like this could be used to execute arbitrary code on the computer that compiles the software, calling random "important looking" stuff into memory (xz backdoor style) to be decoded and executed by the backdoor. Of course, there will never be a day where you can compile untrusted code in Solidity.

    > The lesson? Always test critical software under multiple compilers and library versions — especially when enabling a new language standard.

    Don't have giga-complicated language jockey stuff backing software that can't afford to even have one bug.

    • mathiaspoint 2 hours ago
      This is why I quit using eth. They were just way too comfortable with insane complexity.
  • vlovich123 9 hours ago
    All I took away from this is how more and more complicated C++ as a language becomes to make the syntax slightly more convenient.
    • saghm 7 hours ago
      I get as exasperated at C++ as anyone else, but IMO there's another takeaway here, which is that smart contracts are an absolutely terrible idea. Relying on code as the source of truth for a transaction just completely disregards the reality that code is always going to be buggy. For those who might not be aware, this is the same smart contract framework where someone accidentally killed $300 million of transactions because a function in a library for setting the wallet associated with a private key was defined as public instead of private: https://medium.com/cybermiles/i-accidentally-killed-it-and-e...

      Yes, you can fix issues like this with a "hard fork" if you have a large enough consensus, but at that point, does the system of having smart contracts actually improve anything over the one where the software is downstream rather than the source of truth, or are you just replacing one form of "human intervention required" with a different but worse one?

      • RealityVoid 6 hours ago
        As opposed to being subject to interpretation of the truth, with the courts of varying quality. My point is... everything has error bars.
        • eightysixfour 3 hours ago
          It must. Things that interact with the real world need slack.
      • usmannk 7 hours ago
        This is about a language compiler bug. There are no takeaways about smart contracts here.
        • tsujamin 7 hours ago
          So long as you’re writing your smart contracts with a chisel, into a stone tablet, with no compilers or assemblers in sight!
          • tkz1312 5 hours ago
            The bug was a simple segfault and did not result in the production of invalid or incorrect code.
        • saghm 6 hours ago
          It's about a compiler bug in C++ that had downstream effects in the compiler for Solidity, which is a language for developing smart contracts. Yes, every compiler can have bugs, even ones not relating to smart contracts, but that doesn't seem like a very convincing argument that we should be using compilers for more things rather than boring regular code that isn't considered to be contractual.
      • charcircuit 7 hours ago
        You can fix smart contracts without a hard fork. In fact it's common practice for them to be upgradable.
        • saghm 6 hours ago
          Does it fix them only going forward, or does it actually update what happened in previous transactions retroactively? If the latter, does everyone involved with any transactions using the said contract have a say in whether the upgrade occurs? I'm skeptical that this would actually be a good mechanism in general given how likely it seems that some contracts might be so widely used to essentially require a hard fork in order to upgrade retroactively, but I'm open to the idea that I might be missing something here.
          • charcircuit 6 hours ago
            It only updates the code that will run. Fixing it going forward. To protect oneself against losses due to bugs people can use insurance smart contracts.
    • twoodfin 9 hours ago
      It’s less about convenient syntax and more about simplifying the construction of abstractions.

      You could argue that the latter is the core drive to evolve the standard.

    • mgaunard 8 hours ago
      Every new version of C++ (and sometimes even new versions of C++ compilers) can break code in subtle ways.

      You should always do extensive testing before upgrading.

      • vlovich123 4 hours ago
        I have not observed the same with other languages, whether that’s Java, Rust, or Swift.

        And note this is about an older compiler version using an older library with a “newer” language spec (ie been around 5 years). If you use up to date toolchains there’s less of an issue. This is yet another perennial weakness in the c++ ecosystem that isn’t present in other languages because the standard committee continues to abrogate their duties here.

      • reactordev 7 hours ago
        That’s the crux of the issue. People fear upgrading because of the bugs introduced by more complexity for more terse syntax.

        How much longer will you suffer?

        • mgaunard 6 hours ago
          The same is true for any software. If you care about reliability, you pin, and carefully test before upgrading.
    • DokDidhuAd 3 hours ago
      Yeah, C++ is just batshit insane.

      > In C++, when you write an expression like a == b, the compiler chooses among available operator== implementations by comparing their match quality. A member function like a.operator==(b) usually has higher priority than a non-member function like operator==(a, b) — unless the types differ too much or are ambiguous.

      This is the largest foot-bazooka ever. The point of operator overloading is that the operator in a given expression look natural, feel natural, and behave naturally (= function intuitively). If you have multiple possible operators that could apply, for the same syntax, then you're in a worse position than you originally were -- where an operator either did one particular thing, or didn't apply at all. What operator overloading does in practice is introduce ambiguity. Which is self-defeating. You are better off with C-style, named, non-overloaded functions.

      You will never find this crap in actual math. "match quality" my ass.

      • maccard 1 hour ago
        > You will never find this crap in actual math

        Sure you do. What’s 6/2(1+2)

    • immibis 9 hours ago
      It's not slightly, it's substantially more complicated to become substantially more convenient. The leap from C to C++ is similar to the leap from assembly code to C. As you add features, the language becomes more complex. That's just how it is.

      Most languages deal with this by limiting the features they have - but not C++! (or Scala, which is like Java's C++)

      • bri3d 9 hours ago
        This is a perfect summary of C++: substantially more complicated for substantial convenience.

        Add Boost to the mix, as in this bug, and C++ becomes quite ludicrous really, but it can also combine efficiency, interoperability, and performance in a way that's quite difficult to achieve in other languages.

        IMO, starting a good C++ project is an exercise in defining a specific language based on a subset of C++ more than anything else: done right, it can be a big lever, done wrong, it can be a big foot-gun.

        • tialaramex 7 hours ago
          If we make the underlying mistake in Rust (actually I did last week for unrelated code) by defining an operator implementation as simply calling itself rather than calling some concrete implementation, the compiler warns us, this is infinite recursion which probably wasn't what you wanted.

          G++ has to emit code here to recurse infinitely, so it's not as though there's no opportunity to say "Huh, that probably won't be what they meant"

          • jcelerier 7 hours ago
            C++ compilers had warnings about infinite recursion for years now (since at least 2015 for clang)
            • tialaramex 6 hours ago
              Fair. That's actually crazy - I dug into this more and found the chosen Boost package fails tests on the chosen compiler, and so if they'd done even a cursory check to see if what they're doing could make sense there'd be red flags everywhere.

              So the overall story is mostly "Our QA is garbage".

        • ranger_danger 8 hours ago
          You don't have to use all the fancy new features though. Personally I just stick to C++98 for the most part, unless I really want to use auto or lambdas for some reason, then I might use 11, but I won't go higher.
          • whizzter 8 hours ago
            C++ 11 with lambdas is so much nicer than 98, but even if 14, 17, 20 and 23 have been minor in comparison the accumulated changes have been radical in making what was introduced in 11 into something really useful.

            Making anything remotely useful out of templates was deeply into hideous SFINAE-land (substitution-failure-is-not-an-error) leading to horrible unreadable templates during 98 (and the variable-number templates in 11 while being useful only made it explode in horrendeous hacks).

            "if constexpr" from C++ 17 and forward actually makes template-expansions not too horrid. you can do template expansions that reads mostly like regular if-elseif-else clauses (and I think that was perhaps part of the impetus for Zig's comptime, starting from this point with a clean slate instead of going through regular template evolution hell).

            • addaon 1 hour ago
              C++ pre- and post- C++11 are really different languages. It’s by far the biggest break (so far in my career) in how the language is used. I’ll gladly debate the detailed trade-offs of many of the newer features, but going back to a world before rvalue references is too horrifying to consider.
            • jeffbee 6 hours ago
              The horrendous hacks went away with concepts. SFINAE is dead. Spaceship operator, while perhaps not ideal from every perspective, radically simplifies the workload of implementing comparators.
              • saagarjha 4 hours ago
                Assuming the thing you want actually has a concept, sure.
                • majoe 4 hours ago
                  You can define your own concepts. What is your point?

                  I haven't seen an example yet, where concepts weren't simpler and easier to read/understand than SFINAE shenanigans.

                  • jeffbee 3 hours ago
                    Not only can you define concepts, it is highly entertaining and educational. You can write a concept that makes a function only available on Tuesdays, for example.
            • ranger_danger 3 hours ago
              I don't use templates hardly at all, and I find the added changes in later versions to seriously complicate what I would prefer to be much simpler, for example initialization rules... so that's one of several reasons I like to stick to older C++ versions.
          • sillysaurusx 8 hours ago
            Eh, you’re probably missing out. I remember C++20 being really convenient in comparison, though I forget why.
      • vlovich123 4 hours ago
        I have observed significantly better useful features from Rust or Swift (or Scala) without horribly complicating the language like C++ does. More importantly, they migrate existing codebases and have migration tools instead of breaking old versions of syntax. Rust’s is the most ambitious here letting you mix match editions of the language within a single binary.
      • wavemode 7 hours ago
        Scala has the advantage (and disadvantage) of not caring one lick about backwards compatibility. They were perfectly happy to burn it all to the ground and redo the language's syntax in v3. And even point releases of Scala frequently have breaking changes.
  • metadat 4 hours ago
    What is the appeal / high utility use-case for the spaceship "<=>" operator? It seems quite unintuitive to me.. too many doodads is a turn off, like a car with excessive modifications. Does continually adding more then more more more eventually become a stressful nightmare of complexity?

    For a concrete example of what this looks like, check out the Homer Simpson -designed "everything" car.

    https://media.wired.com/photos/593252a1edfced5820d0fa07/mast...

    p.s. Fascinating bug! One of the most interesting cases I've encountered.

    • tialaramex 4 hours ago
      The spaceship operator is an attempt to achieve the same thing as Rust's PartialOrd -- to have a single authoritative place to explain the ordering of a type.

      Historically C++ only had these separate comparison operators, and operator overloading, and so if you want ordering you'd be expected to override all of the operators and do so in a consistent way. Turns out it's easy enough to get that wrong and if you do now your C++ program is often nonsense, it has no defined meaning whatsoever. For example if a < b && b < a then too bad now many built-in library functions might do absolutely anything in say C++ 17.

      With the spaceship operator you're still screwed if your type provides an incoherent ordering (unlike Rust where that just means the type is less useful) but it's much more likely you'll write something which actually works.

    • maxlybbert 3 hours ago
      When the STL became part of the standard library ( http://www.stlport.org/resources/StepanovUSA.html ), there was a question of how to handle algorithms that sort containers, or that perform a binary search, or in some other way, need to know whether “a” is less-than, equal-to, or greater-than “b”. The algorithms have to work on primitive types, and user defined types as efficiently as possible. They eventually decided to only require a function for “less-than.” And if “a < b” returns false, and “b < a” also returns false, then “a” and “b” are considered equal.

      There are times that doesn’t work, so documentation usually has a footnote that (1) certain algorithms require a partial ordering and not necessarily a total ordering, and (2) to use those algorithms, you must implement less-than, but any other comparison operator is ignored by the algorithm; instead, less-than is used to figure out greater-than and equal-to as needed. This was considered better than requiring programmers to implement a collection of comparison operators, and trusting those programmers to make those operators act consistently with each other (e.g., never say that “a” and “b” are both less-than and greater-than each other).

      The spaceship operator seems to address this specific case ( https://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2017/p0515r0... ). According to Herb Sutter (note that his name is on the proposal), “We added the C++20 spaceship operator to the language, but we also applied it throughout the C++ standard library and that made the library specification nearly 20 pages shorter — a net reduction” ( https://herbsutter.com/2020/12/ ).

      • spyrja 2 hours ago
        Way back when I actually perused through quite a bit of Stepanov's STL code and stumbled on that very thing, the comparison operator semantics. I remember thinking it very clever of him to approach it that way and it hadn't even crossed my mind at the time that it might lead to some kind of undefined behavior. Thanks for pointing out such an interesting tidbit!
        • maxlybbert 6 minutes ago
          Maybe "doesn't work" is the wrong phrase. Usually, it does what people expect (except that the library ignores any "operator==" or "operator!=", which surprises people who went through the trouble to define them). And depending on what "operator<" does, it's possible for distinct values (a.k.a., not-equal values) to compare "equal." So to avoid confusion, people start using phrases like "equivalent" instead of "equal." But usually there's no real confusion: if you sort a list of strings by length, nobody's surprised when "hello" and "green" compare "equal," even though they have different contents. Everybody realizes that they have equal lengths, not equal contents.

          The main things I've actually had to watch out for are floating point values that could have not-a-numbers (e.g., https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/math/isunordered.h... ), and possibly Unicode strings that aren't normalized ( https://unicode.org/reports/tr15/ ), but those act weird in all software I'm familiar with. Because people forget about the relevant edge cases.

  • yjftsjthsd-h 7 hours ago
    Okay, but why

      // SPDX-License-Identifier: UNLICENSED
    
    on 6 lines of trivial example code? Of all the things to make proprietary...
    • layer8 6 hours ago
      More importantly, it’s apparently non-conforming: https://opensource.stackexchange.com/a/12412

      Other than that, simply not specifying any license would be equivalent.

    • tczMUFlmoNk 5 hours ago
      It seems that the Solidity compiler complains if you do not specify one:

      https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68332228/spdx-license-id...

      • yjftsjthsd-h 3 hours ago
        Warning, not error, and if you must license the 6-line trivial example, just use CC0-1.0
      • layer8 3 hours ago
        It’s just example code in a blog post though…
    • dejj 6 hours ago
      Would the license help to prevent an AI training on the example code?
      • qualeed 5 hours ago
        If they eventually start paying attention to licenses, maybe?
      • LtWorf 5 hours ago
        No, AI companies are apparently exempted from copyright laws.

        edit: bring on the downvotes… doesn't change the fact that fb illegally downloaded a lot of material to train, and so did every other AI company.

    • typpilol 7 hours ago
      I saw that too and had to double take lol
  • questionaaire 6 hours ago
    My only question is how this operator== override eluded the g++ test suite:

    https://osec.io/blog/2025-08-11-compiler-bug-causes-compiler...

  • nly 4 hours ago
    Seems like the free comparison function in boost rational should have been constrained to non-rationals

    i.e. !is_same_v<rational, U>

  • moonlet 6 hours ago
    I brain-typo’d the title into a 12-year-old girl’s bug taking down Solidity and this, frankly, does not live up to that hype