23 comments

  • dr_dshiv 5 hours ago
    A good place to start is Cornelis Agrippa’s “Three Books on Occult Philosophy.” Agrippa was a lawyer and esoteric feminist (eg, he wrote “on the nobility and preeminence of the female sex”) and defended women accused of witchcraft throughout Europe. His “three books” gave birth to the “occult” nomenclature.

    Or my favorite, Marsilio Ficino. There is a statue to Ficino when you walk into the library. Ficino was hired by Cosimo Medici (the Florentine who invented banking and funded much of the Florentine renaissance) to translate Plato and other esoteric books coming from the fall of Constantinople. He published “De Mysteriis” in 1497, which paraphrases neoplatonic understanding of Gods, Demons, Heroes and Soul — arguing that gods and demons don’t feel — indeed, not even the soul (“the lowest of the divines”) has any part that feels.

    (Aside: This idea was actually referenced in “K Pop Demon Hunters,” where they debate whether demons can feel — or are “all feelings”)

    It is an old Pythagorean tradition that sensation or consciousness arises out of the interaction of the immaterial soul and the material body. That “three world” idea is echoed by Nobel Laureate Roger Penrose in his book “Road to Reality.” He talks about how the material world produces the world of consciousness which produces the world of ideas (including mathematics), which seems to produce the material world…

    In any case, there are many old ideas and nuggets of wisdom that have yet to be mined and discovered— don’t think for a moment that scholars have read all these books! We might need AI for that…

    • ryandv 5 hours ago
      > It is an old Pythagorean tradition that sensation or consciousness arises out of the interaction of the immaterial soul and the material body. That “three world” idea is echoed by Nobel Laureate Roger Penrose in his book “Road to Reality.” He talks about how the material world produces the world of consciousness which produces the world of ideas (including mathematics), which seems to produce the material world…

      You see this idea echoed in Hermetic Qabalah as the "Four Worlds" - the world of action & physical materiality, the world of psychology, thought, feeling, & egoic consciousness, the world of creativity, and the world of archetypal abstraction.

      The Hermetic influence comes from the assertion that the three immaterial worlds of the "soul" or "mind" (synonyms with the same referent) are in some sense equal to, or at least intertwined with, the material body, in a mutually reciprocal dance: "As above, so below; as below, so above."

      For some 20th century texts in this neighbourhood: The Three Initiates' primer on occult studies The Kybalion, Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabalah, and the classic Qabalistic reference: Liber 777 by Crowley (or its updated, more legible version, Liber 776 1/2 by Eshelman). The works of Israel Regardie such as The One Year Manual or The Middle Pillar are also good for grounding occult studies in more psychological or psychotherapeutic language which is a good moderating influence when experimenting with pretty out-there material.

      Be careful with the meaning of words in this field.

    • zoogeny 5 hours ago
      I think your description of Penrose's belief does not match a podcast I recently watched where he discusses these topics with the Christian apologist William Lane Craig [1]. In fact, he explicitly states early on in that video that he sees the world of ideas as primary as opposed to Craig's view that consciousness is primary.

      At any rate, this video might serve as a quick introduction to Penrose's three world idea for those interested.

      1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wLtCqm72-Y

      • dr_dshiv 5 hours ago
        Oh, cool! I don’t recall a “primary” in the book — he suggests a range of different possible configurations that he was open to. What struck you as not matching?

        Personally, I do think that the immaterial world of ideas must be primary—at least certain aspects of mathematics seem so necessary that they’d be discovered by intelligent life, no matter the galaxy… or simulation…

        • zoogeny 5 hours ago
          I was considering your explicit "material -> conscious -> ideas -> material" description. It feels more correct when you say he considers a range of possibilities that connect these, not explicit causality.

          My take away was that he sees a mystery in the connections between these things (physical world, consciousness, ideas) that hints at some missing ideas in our conceptions of these things. But he clearly wants to avoid that mystery allowing what he calls out as "vague" answers to the question (mostly religious dogmatic certainties).

        • ryandv 5 hours ago
          > Personally, I do think that the immaterial world of ideas must be primary—at least certain aspects of mathematics seem so necessary that they’d be discovered by intelligent life, no matter the galaxy… or simulation…

          For some speculative philosophical fiction that explores related ideas I highly recommend Neal Stephenson's Anathem.

        • throwanem 5 hours ago
          All life also defecates, intelligent or otherwise. Curious how no one hastens to canonize that for its ubiquity.
          • ghssds 25 minutes ago
            /offtopic

            I don't know why but your comment made me remember a novel[1] I read thirty-some years ago about a temple found deep in the sand of the Sahara desert. Sometime later, an archeologist gave himself permission to defecate in a corner of the temple, only for his wastes to be absorbed by the temple in a few hours, which told him the temple was actually a living biological structure.

            1: https://www.daliaf.com/oeuvres/etrange-monument-du-desert-ly...

          • ryandv 4 hours ago
            Well, there was the Egyptian deity Khephra who was represented by the dung beetle rolling its dung along the desert, symbolizing the passage of the sun through the sky.

            In alchemy and western esoterica, excrement is associated with the tenth sephirah, the 10s of the Tarot minor arcana, and symbolizes the end result of a process and any remaining waste byproducts, for obvious reasons. In The Holy Mountain's (1973) depiction of the alchemical magnum opus, The Fool's excrement is transmuted into gold, symbolizing the awakening of unconscious, reactive matter into fully enlightened and integrated, free willed, egoic man.

            • throwanem 4 hours ago
              Escape is not canonization.
              • ryandv 3 hours ago
                It was a facetious comment anyway.
          • cess11 4 hours ago
            There's a fair bit of defecation in the Bible. Saul shitting in a cave, I forgot where, or Paul calling all material things 'skubala', i.e. waste, as in junk, poop, refuse, basically what we'd call shit today:

            https://www.greekbible.com/philippians/3/8

            Edit: This also seems like a decent opportunity to bring up the scatological Luther.

            https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/summer-2012-americ...

            • krapp 4 hours ago
              Also Ezekiel 4:9-13, where God commanded Ezekiel to bake bread in a fire fueled by human shit because He was angry at the Israelites, but Ezekiel haggled God down to just using cow shit.
    • Anon84 4 hours ago
      If you're looking for a physical version, the latest translation by Eric Purdue is exceptionally well researched and documented: https://amzn.to/4ly4wTf
    • Archelaos 2 hours ago
      > don’t think for a moment that scholars have read all these books!

      Umberto Eco probably did.

  • jrussino 7 hours ago
    This sounds like the premise for a fun sci-fi/horror move. Uh-oh; we accidentally trained GPT6 on the Necronomicon!
    • modeless 6 hours ago
      Nous Research already trained an occult model: https://x.com/Teknium1/status/1710505270043189523
    • literalAardvark 6 hours ago
      You jest, but that's already a pretty decent Buffy the vampire slayer episode
    • duxup 6 hours ago
      Distantly like the story about Rationalists where some went from referencing "demons" to believing the occult is real.

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44877076

    • wrp 5 hours ago
      I wonder how Terry Pratchett would have dealt with magical e-books? The goings on at the library of Unseen University were some of my favorite parts of Discworld.
      • grimgrin 4 hours ago
        aside, my kindle is named: "Octarine Fairy" -- hardly fitting, except it's a book and I adore discworld

        https://wiki.lspace.org/Octarine_Fairy_Book

        • WJW 3 hours ago
          That is a very cool name for a kindle. Never stop believing in dragons! You could actually make them extinct that way.
    • ted_bunny 6 hours ago
      Honestly you can't get much out of GPT-666* except the most boilerplate sigils, and then you run the risk of cross-imbuement and well, now you got demons. Do you want demons? Because that's how you get demons.
      • Dilettante_ 2 hours ago
        I've quite improved my results by telling it to purify and circumambulate its ritual space a few times in my user prompt. I've also been dabbling with reasoning, but so far what feels like 80% of sessions get possessed within 2 reasoning steps.
    • rpastuszak 6 hours ago
      I can't recall the title, but a friend was recommending to me a book in this genre. I'm probably misremembering, but here you go: a detective agency using an artificial intelligence to conjure demons.
    • Onavo 6 hours ago
      The Laundry and the Black Chamber want to know your location.
      • grues-dinner 4 hours ago
        Honestly, if Charles Stross decides that reality is catching up with the fiction again and the Laundry Files goes the way Rule 34 universe, I'll have to feed myself to the corner hounds.
    • dylan604 6 hours ago
      I hope it was trained on Army of Darkness and can never actually say the words.
    • RajT88 5 hours ago
      New season of Evil Dead. Either way, I'd watch it.
    • ChrisMarshallNY 5 hours ago
      Nah, the Octavo.
    • akomtu 7 hours ago
      "AI trained on alchemy books successfully invokes demons"
      • rpastuszak 6 hours ago
        Here's a picture that lives in my head rent free:

        - programming is alchemy: combine, transmute

        - prompt engineering is demonic evocation: bend the demon to your will through language play and gotchas

        • krapp 6 hours ago
          This is just a Charles Stross novel.
          • rpastuszak 6 hours ago
            I just learned about The Laundry Files, thanks!
            • datadrivenangel 5 hours ago
              The Laundry files are very good. James Bond crossed with Lovecraft in the tone of Terry Pratchett.
        • krisoft 5 hours ago
          Coding with an LLM certainly feels like being a malconvoker.
        • nurettin 6 hours ago
          What is the equal sacrifice for programming? Hair loss?
          • slt2021 3 hours ago
            carpal tunnel, scoliosis, nearsightedness
      • TheOtherHobbes 7 hours ago
        Considering where we are, "AI trained on occult books successfully banishes demons" might be more useful.
        • nailer 6 hours ago
          OK that's an idea for a fun / silly movie.

          - AI model gets access to weapons and decides to attack humanity (so far so boring)

          - Humans respond by training their own model on occult to summon demons to fight the robots.

      • Electricniko 3 hours ago
        OpenYog-Sothoth
      • pnemonic 7 hours ago
        "Aleister Crowley and Helena Blavatsky reborn as LLMs after encoded consciousnesses parsed by training algorithms"
        • dr_dshiv 6 hours ago
          Ethics of AI necromancy; under which circumstances is it ethically appropriate to summon the souls of dead classical philosophers?
          • vintermann 2 hours ago
            If they would have approved of it and/or totally done it themselves, it has to be OK, right?
        • Eupolemos 6 hours ago
          A Golden Dawn for AI!

          (iykyk)

          • CapricornNoble 6 hours ago
            " 'Do What Thou Wilt' Shall Be the Whole of the Prompt!"

            -AI-LLMester Crowley

      • racl101 7 hours ago
        So did it tell you how to make gold or not?
        • setnone 6 hours ago
          You have to use uncensored version
        • akomtu 6 hours ago
          AI won't tell you the truth unless you make it do so with exorcism powers. It's an archdemon after all.
          • bigfishrunning 4 hours ago
            Lol the AI we have tells only lies. We still need to invent it's brother, who tells only the truth.
      • trenchpilgrim 6 hours ago
        "HN commenters point out that top human warlocks are still capable of forming pacts with a wider variety of powerful entities such as djinn, archfey, celestials and the Great Old Ones"
    • hobo_in_library 6 hours ago
      1600 of these had already been uploaded back in 2018.

      All our AIs are already trained on these

      https://web.archive.org/web/20240615044608/https://www.openc...

    • empath75 6 hours ago
  • gtsnexp 3 hours ago
    This is revolutionary. In my youth, I traveled through old libraries in Germany, collecting microfilm of Paracelsus’s works. Online availability could reshape the study of the early history of chemistry, metallurgy, and physics.

    “Occult philosophy” is just the lens medieval societies used to make sense of the natural world.

    • glimshe 1 hour ago
      Sounds fascinating.

      Did you do that full time? What did you get out of it?

  • perfectbeeing 6 hours ago
    Would this be reasonable material on which to fine tune the new Gemma 3 270M model?
    • Disposal8433 6 hours ago
      Half of the occult books are talking about magic and irrelevant stuff. The other half is philosophy and spirituality hidden behind materialistic concepts (think Freemasons for example).

      All those books would most likely be useless or detrimental for LLMs I guess.

      • literalAardvark 6 hours ago
        More than useful for running a d&d campaign
        • gtsnexp 3 hours ago
          Thinking of a RAG with the entire Ritman library collection as a GM.
      • dr_dshiv 6 hours ago
        Most of the books are the outcomes of the Renaissance. The relationship between “science” and spirituality was much closer then than now.

        Further, most books published in Europe between 1300-1700 were written in Neo-Latin. Most of these books, therefore, have not been digitized and translated.

        Now, to me, it seems like a real shame if this humanist core of European thought is deemed too dangerous for consumption. But it wouldn’t be the first time. The library behind these works, the Biblioteca Philosophica Hermetica, specializes in books banned by various church authorities.

        I personally believe that these materials should definitely be part of large model training. The renaissance, esoteric though it may be, deserves to be part of the diversity of thought used to train LLMs.

        We can easily imagine an AI apocalypse - maybe these books might even help us imagine an AI renaissance…

        • zozbot234 5 hours ago
          > I personally believe that these materials should definitely be part of large model training.

          Already done: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37752272 It turns out that the real safety risk with AI is not Mecha-Hitler, it's just that it might end up reading the wrong sorts of books and accidentally conjure a horde of demons.

          • dr_dshiv 5 hours ago
            > accidentally conjure a horde of demons.

            If we have a certain perspective on demons as self-sustaining information processing loops—we’ll, yeah, demons abound.

            And, yes, this hn post from BenBreen — is amazing. We’ve been in touch!

            And if Ben is reading, we’ve made progress on our version controlled community—LLM book translation prototype. Of course, it’s much to early to share on hn. Or whatever, it’s great, take a peek: https://www.philosopherslibrary.com/

            Upload books, get translations. We have a separate system where neolatin scholars can evaluate randomly selected paragraphs — so we can measure and report on the base rate of different qualities for each book as a whole.

            I don’t know if it is technically important for advancing AI, but it might be.

            80% of the Neo-Latin books in the library have not been translated. Most NeoLatin hasn’t been translated. And it is even worse with Sanskrit. So much material has not been digitized or translated.

            Is it meaningful to try to get this humanist core into our language models? Maybe including only modern writing is a good bias, but I doubt it.

            It will take at least 2 years to get all this stuff scanned, digitized, translated and published.

            So it’s kind of urgent, given all the AI training taking place over the next two years.

            I’m writing this in a rush, but I’m at the Houghton Library at Harvard and they just brought up 5 books from Marsilio Ficino, published 1497 and 1516.

            (If you or anyone is into this kind of thing, my email is in my profile — it’s my favorite hobby)

        • pelasaco 4 hours ago
          > books banned by various church authorities

          A book that "explains why" the church is still against it, is the Anti-christian conspiracy, Msgr. Henri Delassus, 1911 (I guess)

  • TheAceOfHearts 5 hours ago
    I love the art aesthetic of occult texts, but browsing through all these books just to find any hidden gems or interesting artwork seems really tedious. At least browsing through the list with the title pages visible shows a few interesting designs. Can't really get much more out of this because most of the texts are unreadable to me. This might be a good use case for agentic AI, to browse through the books and highlight any artwork that's hidden beyond the first page.

    For alchemy, I was recently learning about alchemical symbols and sigils, but quickly found out that pretty much all the interesting material from this era and category has been preserved, while all the ugly or uninteresting variants tend to get dropped. Unicode has a category for alchemical symbols and they just preserved what seems to be the best parts. Shout-out to U+1F756, the Alchemical Symbol for Horse Dung 🝖.

    Whenever I visit a major news publication with dedicated artists handling the creation of hero images, I often end up taking a bit of time to contemplate each design decision and exploring any symbolic interpretation. The best publications have a way of perfectly communicating the underlying tone and message of an article just from the hero image. The Atlantic tends to have the most creative hero images, while The Economist has the most interesting cover designs. And yet, despite this expertise, I never see people remark on those little delights, which in a way makes it occult while hiding in plain sight. It feels a bit connected, seeing the artwork in the first page of these books; maybe an invitation with the whispers of the kind of message the authors wished to convey.

    • giraffe_lady 4 hours ago
      I have a cook friend who uses a subset of the alchemical symbols for labeling in his home kitchen, which I've always thought was fun. Most of them aren't applicable but a lot of the kitchen basics have symbols: oil, salt, vinegar, sugar, baking soda a few others I'm forgetting.
  • asimpletune 2 hours ago
    The book club I do with my friends maintains a list of resources such as the one in the article. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone would take a look and suggest anything we should add.

    https://b00k.club/resources/

  • popalchemist 4 hours ago
    For those who don't know, this is the best digital library of Occult/Alchemical texts in existence.
  • heikkilevanto 4 hours ago
    Looks like wonderful material to feed any AI crawler that accesses the forbidden part of my site.
  • Jonovono 7 hours ago
    Somewhat related, but I randomly got suggested this video on Youtube when it only had a couple hundred views. He's turned it into a series, and I have quite enjoyed it. Somehow bridges user interfaces and occult stuff haha

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGpBQgZ5IsI&list=PLsfH1Ahi4S...

    • rpastuszak 6 hours ago
      Check out https://futureofcoding.org if you haven't. When I watched Liber Indigo, my first thought was that it would be a great intro to the type of problems that community is messing with*.

      * future of computing, esoteric/future interfaces etc...

      • wsintra2022 5 hours ago
        I read the book also and found it to be a delightful experience
    • fnordlord 4 hours ago
      This is great, thanks. I've been going down a real rabbit hole on Thelemic magic and this really brings it back, full circle, to something I actually do understand.
  • chrisstanchak 6 hours ago
    Very cool, but I don't see a way to download. Currently have ChatGPT Agent Mode translating one from latin, but a tedious process.
    • riazrizvi 3 hours ago
      No doubt these were instruments part of some scheme to make a living, and the context in which they were used is no longer available.

      I love to see how names of famous Romans and Greeks were reused to give them credence. I bet they used lots of other techniques listed by Cialdini in Influence.

  • Frummy 4 hours ago
    YOU can get lost in the metaphysical sauce and be left with an outdated, economically and socially irrelevant belief structure. Beware!
    • krapp 4 hours ago
      I didn't ask how big the tax burden was I said "I cast fireball."
      • Frummy 4 hours ago
        rolled 14. Direct hit, moderate damage. Beware having to buy another mana potion.
        • krapp 4 hours ago
          Audit that ya IRS ghouls...
    • exasperaited 4 hours ago
      Bit like NFTs then.
  • baobabKoodaa 6 hours ago
    Can anyone link a torrent? Would be nice to preserve this collection.
  • heelix 6 hours ago
    Oh man, these are absolutely going to improve our DnD props.
    • rook_line_sinkr 6 hours ago
      thought the same thing, texting my DM right now ':D
  • gnerd00 6 hours ago
    Your computers are useless -- they only produce answers
  • neilv 6 hours ago
    Does digitizing not summon demons like human reading can?

    What if an LLM trained on that combines ancient spells with the name that must not be spoken?

  • jasperry 5 hours ago
    "There is a sense in which we are all alchemists." --Schopenhauer
  • joshjob42 6 hours ago
    No! Don't you people know that's how you release Moloch the Corruptor?!
    • partomniscient 6 hours ago
      I thought Ginsberg already did that back in the 1950's...?
  • dismalaf 7 hours ago
    This is super cool. There's also a popular YouTube channel called "ESOTERICA" in which an academic expert on the occult presents a lot of occult topics from a scholarly point of view (as opposed to the woo often associated with the topic).
    • djij 6 hours ago
      The SHWEP (Secret History of Western Esotericism Podcast) is also great for getting into the esoteric from an academic bent, Highly recommended for those with the stomach to deep dive into obscure primary sources

      https://shwep.net/

    • weatherlight 2 hours ago
      I love his channel. I have no interest in this subject but I like his style of lecturing and showing/teaching. I watch all his stuff when it drops.
    • toomuchtodo 7 hours ago
    • hungmung 6 hours ago
      Francis Yates is also a fun introduction to the history of hermeticism and alchemy through a historian's perspective, and how it contributed to the creation of science.
      • ryandv 6 hours ago
        It is sometimes said that Isaac Newton, godfather of modern science, was not the first scientist but rather the last magician. The majority of his scholarly output was in fact focused on alchemy and the occult.

        Aleister Crowley somewhat echoes this juxtaposition in the motto of his magickal journal, The Equinox: "The Method of Science, the Aim of Religion."

        • dr_dshiv 6 hours ago
          One of the founders of the royal society, John Wilkins, wrote a popular book about magick: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Magick

          Stems from the then popular interest in Natural Magick. Evolved into science and engineering.

          • hungmung 6 hours ago
            I believe the Royal Society in particular had strong connections to the so-called Rosicrucians, or at least were very interested in the texts. It's likely no such group ever really existed, but the learned men of the day seem to have taken inspiration from the texts, which read very much like academics frustrated by the constraints of the Reformations. So they had a loose network which flew under the radar to avoid trouble. Eventually part of this becomes the Royal Society. There was even a short-lived monarchy in Bohemia which was essentially coopted Rosicrucian ideas to create what resembles a liberal monarchy which tried to insulate itself from the chaos of the reformations.

            https://ia903209.us.archive.org/30/items/the-rosicrucian-enl...

    • narrator 6 hours ago
      IMHO, the occult is just pre-modern social psychology and propaganda. How to get people to join your religion and fight, do bad stuff, and die for you is really old technology. Before modern psychology "Spellcasting" was saying something to someone for the effect it would have on them to manipulate their psychology to get them to do the thing you wanted them to do. It was a sort of pre-modern NLP. Christians and people of other Abrahamic faiths co-existed with and did not like these guys and the feeling was generally mutual.
      • wise0wl 4 hours ago
        This is your opinion. I do not share your opinion. The occult is a wide range of topics and practices, generally split (but not cleanly) into theurgic and thaumaturgic activities. That is, manifestation of the three common desires (wealth, power, love / sex etc.), and then deification and approaching and sometimes joining with / uniting with God. Occult meaning, hidden.

        If you read many of the grimoires, there is very little NLP of any kind. The Papyri Graecae Magicae is one of the oldest explicitly magical documents we have from Greek Egypt, and it does have some manipulation spells (as most magical documents do) but none of this has to do with coersion to join a religion or join in a war, or to "do bad stuff". It's largely "technology" used by a practicing magician (a moonlighting Egyptian priest) to help the laity deal with their daily lives regarding helping their crops grow, animals not get sick, healing sick children, getting revenge on their neighbors and former lovers etc.

        Magic is always a tool in the hands of the oppressed as a response to tyrannical hierarchy.

      • dismalaf 5 hours ago
        "Occult" means hidden practices. So it covers both non-mainstream religious/mystical/magical practices, but it also covers "hidden" beliefs within religions.

        Stuff like Kabbalah is considered occult, as it Christian mysticism, or folk mysticism that coexists with religion.

        Also, one can study things without making judgements about them. The history of human beliefs is interesting.

        • narrator 5 hours ago
          One of the interesting things I realize when I meet occult practitioners of the Hermeticist varieties is they refuse to acknowledge they are a religion and what they believe is only as true as any other religion. Like one adherent told me the universal consciousness has parts and I said, "that's fine that you believe that, but you acknowledge that is your religious belief?" and this person refused to even say that instead claiming that it was the absolute truth and not religion. I mean only the most bigoted religious zealot would claim that all other religions are false and his was the absolute truth and not a religion because it was absolutely true.
          • ryandv 4 hours ago
            This is exactly how I feel when people start telling me about their own religious beliefs about things like "gender identity," right down to the absolute certitude in their faith and the bigoted, zealous excommunication of nonbelievers and heretics.
            • amanaplanacanal 36 minutes ago
              Now I'm wondering which church excommunicated you...
  • hobo_in_library 6 hours ago
    At the bottom of the page:

    > Note: An earlier version of this post appeared on our site in 2018.

    Very confused by this. Seems like they uploaded the books in 2018? What changed between then and now?

    Edit: The number of uploads was 1600 back in 2018 https://web.archive.org/web/20240615044608/https://www.openc...

  • steveBK123 4 hours ago
    Great now the LLMs are going to be able to cast spells on us, just what we needed.
  • Razengan 3 hours ago
    Great, now we'll have AIs summoning eldritch entities before the decade is out.
  • nashashmi 6 hours ago
    Some people here are reacting like the occult is fake.

    Magic is fake. It is an illusion and it is fun and games. And we have lots of stories about it, both fantasy and horror.

    Occult is real. There is no such thing as white magic. There is only black magic. And such magic involves making trades with spirits and demons and establishing relationships with them. These demons do not have a code. They slowly guide you towards a state where you humiliate yourself and put yourself in a compromised state. Addicted. Disconnected. Repulsed.

    Please be careful around these things. It’s fun until someone dies. As this professional witch will tell you. https://www.facebook.com/shadow.control.en/videos/zhanna-kus...

    • NoGravitas 3 hours ago
      Arthur Waite's "The Book of Ceremonial Magic" is an interesting look at what magic qualifies as white and black magic. For Waite, white magic is that aimed at mystical union with God, so essentially synonymous with Christian mysticism. None of the ceremonial magic he discusses qualifies, and he considered anything practical other than "The Cloud of Unknowing" to be unnecessary and probably useless in that direction. Most of the Renaissance and early modern books he discusses are mostly or all black magic, though some of them include information on contacting angels, which he considers neutral.
    • altruios 5 hours ago
      I can not take you seriously.

      You contradict yourself.

      > Magic is fake.

      > There is only black magic.

      You are talking about demons.

      Your link is to a facebook post...

      I can not take you seriously.

      • NoGravitas 3 hours ago
        Presumably the fake magic is stage magic, while the black magic in question is what we would now distinguish as "magick", and it's silly that they didn't use that spelling.
    • cess11 5 hours ago
      We're already compromised and humiliated, why not bring forth some embers of the Morning Star along the way?
    • rokkamokka 5 hours ago
      James Randi comes to mind
    • just-working 5 hours ago
      Exactly. We must turn the LORD and not these demons.
      • Trasmatta 3 hours ago
        Sadly, "the LORD" has never done much for me, but diving into the occult has at least been fun!
        • amanaplanacanal 34 minutes ago
          Some folks think that the Creator is actually a usurper from the real divinity, and that therefore all of creation is inherently evil.
          • Trasmatta 29 minutes ago
            Gnosticism is also fun!