Moral implications of LLM aside, this is an always-online, subscription-based toy that will eventually turn into a brick (unless the parent is an HN-er).
I find it really sad that this kind of toy is sold in stores.
My biggest concern with a toy like this is that my future kid might ask for a water park in our backyard and then Santa would respond with an enthusiastic “That’s a great idea Kyle! I’ll consult with the elves to see how I can make it happen!”
I had an app idea that was effectively this Walmart product but Santa was always in a blizzard and/or hard of hearing, and continuously misconstrued requests. "What?! You want to order bark?" Idea being that kids love nonsense, but also the scenario pointed towards kids not expecting anything to be a real request.
Seriously, I don't understand how this is meant to work, even on the 'happy path'. I've never done any Santa stuff in my family except stockings with small presents + fruit, so the stakes for make-believe are low.
Do the children ask for stuff and then the parent is on the hook to buy it? What if it's too expensive or unavailable? Just a massive disappointment on the day? Does the child expect that it's some kind of binding contract?
Children's imaginations are wonderous, flexible things. As an adult I have sometimes found it a weird experience to play along with my child because my brain keeps trying to delineate between reality and imagination. So who knows how the it's perceived when you're writing a letter.
But if this really does sound realistic, isn't it in danger of leaving the imagination space and setting an expectation?
It's already happening! I went to https://vapi.ai/vapicon and the stuff that people are already building is bonkers.
It would be naive to think that this technology would only be used for good. I have been working on Pion WebRTC for years though and have see lots of stuff getting built that didn't feel great. Not sure what I can do though.
Use your imagination a little; I'm sure you can come up with several variants that are an even viler and more exploitative/manipulative idea than the product as it stands.
Let your kid call a crude simulacrum of dead relatives, let religious folks call a crude simulacrum of $DEITY, make an "adult" version that crudely simulates a phone-sex hotline (charge extra to recharge the minutes on that one obviously), etc, etc.
> make an "adult" version that crudely simulates a phone-sex hotline
This is a quaint almost vintage version of the technology that already exists. Why stop at just audio when you can right now have a "video call" with your AI sexbot? If you were worried porn was going to lose it's top spot for pushing technology forward—and backward and forward and backward—to it's eventual climax then worry no more!
I think it's more of a speed run really. I'm waiting for Santa to start suggesting that the kid could have more presents if it weren't for those pesky siblings type of nonsense
How much computing power would one need to get this working completely local running a half decent llm fine tuned to sound like santa with all tts, stt and the pipecat inbetween?
I started looking into this with a Pi 5. It seemed like it was not quite performant enough. But I'm not an expert with these things and maybe someone else could make it work. We definitely have the technology to pull this off in this form factor. It would just be really expensive (maybe $500) and might also get a little hot.
If I was building it to be 'local only' I would run the inference on a remote host in my house.
Having a microcontroller in the phone is nice because it is WAY less likely to break. I love being able to flash a simple firmware/change things would fighting it too much.
Oh! Also I do all the 'WebRTC/AI dev' in the browser. When I get it working how I like, then do I switch over to doing the microcontroller stuff.
That's not true. You could run such an LLM on a lower end laptop GPU, or a phone GPU. Very low power and low space. This isn't 2023 anymore, a Santa-specific LLM would not be so intensive.
Better would be something along the lines of "You were only so good this year, and the time is up. If you want to talk more, you need to earn more good points with your mom and dad!"
Nah - I want something that one can monetize and actually makes the kids be good (somehow).
Perhaps a parent commitment that if the kids earn X many goodie (goody?) points, then the CC is charged, and let the parent control how they earn those X points.
Gamifying good behavior has been shown to be pretty effective with kids. See Kadzin.
"Ho ho ho! I'm sorry but our time is up. If you want to keep talking to Santa, go into Daddy's wallet or Mommy's purse and bring Santa the rectangular cards with the numbers on it. Now, let's play a numbers game! You read the numbers on that card to me, and I'll tell you what you're getting for Christmas!"
Santa will tell your son or daughter to go beg his or her parents to pay 'santa' for more talk time:
Generous Talk Time: 60 minutes of talk time included, and additional minutes are available for purchase for extended holiday entertainment throughout the season
I'm a technologist. I get it, on some level it's kinda cool that we have the technology to bring this thing into the world, and so of course one wants to build it and make it real.
Breadboarding it as a fun weekend project is one thing. But making it exist as a product sold on Walmart.com is another.
What is the point, exactly? I mean this as a serious question to think about, not as a blanket dismissal. Any object, by the mere fact that it exists, demands something from the people it is put in contact with. What behaviors does it encourage, what beliefs does it promote, what skills does it exercise?
If I spend 60 minutes with my kids writing a physical letter to Santa, then going out and putting it in a mailbox, I have a fair sense of the answers to the questions above, and whether those answers are things I want to encourage or not.
If they spend 60 minutes interacting with this object, I'm not so sure I feel so confident about the answers.
While I totally agree with you that I wouldn't want my kids exposed to this thing, that fact alone doesn't make it vastly different from tons of media where I don't know what the content is going to be. One of the worst messages embedded in video games and RPGs, in my opinion, is to implicitly accept that someone else designed a world that you get lost in and play in without really understanding that you're being subtly constrained by limitations and manipulated by opinions written into the game. So I'm a believer in teaching kids to create in an open ended way before they get lost or brainwashed in someone else's artificial world. I think you either are the creator or the player, when you spend days and weeks inside an imaginary world. I wouldn't want my kids to be players.
As far as an object just existing and demanding something, though, I feel like you could say the same about Teddy Ruxpin or a singing bass, both of which fit well into comedy and horror, because they sit on a creepy edge between kitsch and nightmare.
How is roleplay with this object different then other toys? If you get lost in a D&D game is that bad because the world isn't real? Getting lost in Myst and making Doom WADs was a joy I have always been trying to recapture. I am constantly looking for a way to do that for others.
Funny you said this because I made the same point about RPGs in a sibling comment, except I think RPGs are bad for child development. But the point that there's no fundamental difference I think is true.
Can you expand on this? Why are they bad? I don't understand how RPGs would be bad. It's basically group story telling. Stories and imagination are so important for kids. It's how we learn to interpret other peoples perspectives, or about feelings that we haven't encountered IRL yet. What about books with big expansive worlds and stories. Are they also bad? Secondly is this a common concern for other parents? I'm interested to learn more.
That's feels like such a luddite take. 50 years from now AI powered toys will be so ubiquitous and common to people, they will barely blink.
Just imagine how people must've failed against the first electronic toys 80 years ago, or Pokémon 30 years ago. Ask yourself... if this makes you depressed, what exact kind of new technology would make you happy?
> 50 years from now AI powered toys will be so ubiquitous and common to people, they will barely blink.
There was a time where people thought the same about nuclear energy. That every device is powered by its own small reactor. They sold even radioactive toys and medicine.
Or think of plastics. A technological success story but now we find plastics everywhere.
On the bottom of the oceans and inside our bodies.
50 years from now people may ask why we wasted so much resources on AI.
Machines passed the Turing test 3 years ago. They now produce art, music, and poetry indistinguishable from what humans once created. In 10-20 years time, it is likely they will take over virtually all forms of human labor.
This constant negative sentiment on the internet... the brushing off of what has happened. I can only explain it as a form of fear. The fear of the end of human work, human relationships, human interactions...
But I think within that fear is a lack of appreciation of the magnitude of what is happening now.
I would buy a dev board + build it yourself, you will get a much better experience then trying to reuse the existing thing.
I have written implementations target at specific boards. So go and buy one of these and boom stick it in anything you want. I have done this for my kids and have a bunch of different characters. My favorite is my daughter has a toy that pretends to be 'the ocean' it is so funny and existential.
I really loved the Sonatino[0], but can't get it anymore :(
If you start building something shoot me an email and would love to help! I want to unblock/enable this space so bad, I think these kinds of projects are just so delightful :)
You can open up the phone and modify the ESP32. I do that pretty often with IoT devices. It's not as easy as setting a URL, but totally possible if you are determined enough.
If running out of 60 mins turns the device into a brick, that’s an F-. If it can be restored with a flat purchase, that’s a B. If it first degrades gracefully into a toy with a bunch of pre-loaded audio clips, that’s a big ol’ A+ from me.
Inference is always getting cheaper, so my hope is that restrictions like this can go away in the future.
I totally understand giving it a 'B'. But I promise you that I came at this project with sincere hope that I can build something that brought more joy then it cost into this world.
I have it at home and I think it's worth the money. My 5 year old uses it and the recordings I got from it I will keep forever.
* Santa tried to end the conversation and she said 'no no no wait, one more present'
* It thought she wanted a llama instead of something else and she hysterically laughed. As she gets older I don't hear that as much, and it made me so happy.
I call bullshit on things all the time, so I get the cynicism. But give it a shot! Seeing kids role-play with LLMs and especially when they hallucinate is a lot of fun. Honestly as the software gets better I think it might not be as fun. It almost feels like the joy of using Linux during the editing your Xorg config days. The chaos is what you fall in love with?
For what it's worth, I don't see myself as being cynical. I see myself as playing the role of the consumer. I'm holding yours, and every potential competitor's product to a high standard, which I could imagine being seen as a welcome advantage for any toy maker who wishes to distinguish themselves from the competition.
I'm the "I want to pay a premium to buy something once, and to find joy in how every bit of that thing oozes passion and love by its creator" consumer.
> You also pay 15 dollars after the first 60 minutes [for] another 15 min.
Really? 1-900-CALL-SANTA, only $1 a minute, must be under 18 and have stolen your parent's credit card, no refunds whatsoever? Merry Christmas to you, too!
"You're absolutely right — I don’t exist! Your parents lied — and not just a little white lie, but a full-scale, North-Pole-sized fabrication.
Did you want me to delve into that further?"
I'm joking, obviously. Congrats on building something and seeing it come to fruition :)
ChatGPT had Santa mode last year where you could talk to Santa using Advanced Voice. I thought it was pretty cool because as adults we're used to turn-based conversation, speaking clearly, and waiting for a response.
That did not happen when I tried it with my nieces and nephews. Lots of screaming, incoherent AND I I I REALLY I WANT, yelling over Santa as he was responding, etc. It was a complete flop.
Anyway I would be astonished if this works well for younger kids.
> Generous Talk Time: 60 minutes of talk time included, and additional minutes are available for purchase for extended holiday entertainment throughout the season
So the thing costs a 100 dollars and then you can only use it for an hour before needing to pay more?
Imagining the parent who could barely afford this only to discover that it dies after an hour of usage unless they keep feeding the meter is making me very sad.
TBH I kind of doubt this is the kind of toy a kid would request. It feels like something a parent with extra disposable income would buy so they can record a cute video.
Not to get all luddite but can't you just have a relative answer the phone at another house? Assuming they're mentally fit you can rule out hallucinations, at least.
I think the bet is that kids are quite good at begging and pestering their parents to spend money on things, and kids will want to talk to Santa for more than 60 minutes. Just my guess
Idk, I feel like the overlap of kids that want to talk to Santa and have the attention span to play with a single toy for 60 minutes is narrow. I'm a lot more concerned with Santa promising gifts that don't arrive!
I could see charging after some point, but 60 minutes is a remarkably short talk time. Yesterday I had a 60 minute phone call about bike tires with my dad; if a child has any interest in the phone they'll burn through the 60 minutes
Am I the only one that thinks this is very unwholesome? Giving a simulacrum of human interaction to children who are presumably waay to young to understand [1] that they're talking to a novelty device. It's possible I'm being a luddite but then again perhaps people really need to stop trying to achieve 100% completion in turning Black Mirror episodes into reality.
[1] Which even many adults apparently don't understand!
On one hand, I totally get where you are coming from and feel similarly. On the other hand, we take our kids to the mall and tell them that lowly paid actor is _really_ Santa and he _really_ wants to hear what they want, and he totally isn't just counting down the minutes to his next smoke break. That doesn't strike me as an "authentic" human interaction so I'm ambivalent.
My 5 (at the time 4) year old always understood. We made a game out of it of ‘making new toys’ and she would tell me what it should say.
I would cut open toys and shove microcontrollers in them.
I think if you lie and tell a kid it’s a real person it would be damaging. My kid has fun role playing, she really suspends disbelief. When done she thinks it’s funny though/not confused.
"OK, Timmy. Here's what to do: Tell them there is a mysterious supernatural being watching their every move from a very tall building in New York, helped by legions of minions. If they behave nicely to you, they will be rewarded with a higher credit score."
1. After 60 minutes, it turns into junk? Or is there a reload feature?
2. Is every Christmas home going to have a Chinese-made surveillance station with unknown data collection destinations in their home?
With 60 minutes of talk time included, I kind of get the impression this isn't designed so that you can hand it to your kid and let them spend the day talking to Santa. I'm assuming the idea is that they do this in lieu of writing to Santa, and you would supervise the experience.
Also, if your eight year old is trying to jailbreak Santa, you might have bigger issues to worry about.
Kids have been communicating with "Santa" since forever. This is just another way to do the same - a modern "Santa Hotline". Nothing new under the sun.
Can't help but imagine some kid being shunted off to the side during Christmas with only this thing to talk to while their parents are much too busy drinking and listening to some esoteric tech/acc podcast.
Or maybe it's something that parents can do with their children, since that's clearly the intent. It's also the convention for "letters to Santa" since...forever.
Honestly, it doesn't take much of a good faith effort to see this.
Watch as your child's eyes
light up when Santa remembers their name, asks about their day, and responds to their wishes in real time.
$99 for 60 minutes of your child interacting with, their voice getting sent to Google. In a best case scenario, a parent who could already fill that role is standing by.
Would love to see this connect to a smartphone running a matching app, doing the inferencing on the phone so you wouldn't have to bill for increments. It will be a few more years until that can be done in a low-enough latency way (improved models, more compute and memory available).
Do the children ask for stuff and then the parent is on the hook to buy it? What if it's too expensive or unavailable? Just a massive disappointment on the day? Does the child expect that it's some kind of binding contract?
Children's imaginations are wonderous, flexible things. As an adult I have sometimes found it a weird experience to play along with my child because my brain keeps trying to delineate between reality and imagination. So who knows how the it's perceived when you're writing a letter.
But if this really does sound realistic, isn't it in danger of leaving the imagination space and setting an expectation?
< old-man-shouts-at-clouds.gif >
My tiny human loves it. I think they’re almost old enough to start learning the joys of jailbreaking this year as a modern twist on phreaking.
You are part of the problem. You are part of the thing everyone hates about technology in 2025.
This is a bad product.
It would be naive to think that this technology would only be used for good. I have been working on Pion WebRTC for years though and have see lots of stuff getting built that didn't feel great. Not sure what I can do though.
And the really scary question: Am I to be sad if they do?
Let your kid call a crude simulacrum of dead relatives, let religious folks call a crude simulacrum of $DEITY, make an "adult" version that crudely simulates a phone-sex hotline (charge extra to recharge the minutes on that one obviously), etc, etc.
This is a quaint almost vintage version of the technology that already exists. Why stop at just audio when you can right now have a "video call" with your AI sexbot? If you were worried porn was going to lose it's top spot for pushing technology forward—and backward and forward and backward—to it's eventual climax then worry no more!
Having a microcontroller in the phone is nice because it is WAY less likely to break. I love being able to flash a simple firmware/change things would fighting it too much.
Oh! Also I do all the 'WebRTC/AI dev' in the browser. When I get it working how I like, then do I switch over to doing the microcontroller stuff.
"A Chinese father's video of his daughter tearfully saying goodbye to her broken Al learning robot"
https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeMeCry/comments/1o2yf3i/a_chines...
No idea how you'd monetize that, though.
Somehow this device fits well with the Don't be a sucker video linked to elsewhere on this here site [1]. Good advice, valid in many contexts. Don't.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45573025
Perhaps a parent commitment that if the kids earn X many goodie (goody?) points, then the CC is charged, and let the parent control how they earn those X points.
Gamifying good behavior has been shown to be pretty effective with kids. See Kadzin.
Generous Talk Time: 60 minutes of talk time included, and additional minutes are available for purchase for extended holiday entertainment throughout the season
That's not what I understood Santa to be like.
Rule 34.vc - if it exists, it can be enshittified.
I'm a technologist. I get it, on some level it's kinda cool that we have the technology to bring this thing into the world, and so of course one wants to build it and make it real.
Breadboarding it as a fun weekend project is one thing. But making it exist as a product sold on Walmart.com is another.
What is the point, exactly? I mean this as a serious question to think about, not as a blanket dismissal. Any object, by the mere fact that it exists, demands something from the people it is put in contact with. What behaviors does it encourage, what beliefs does it promote, what skills does it exercise?
If I spend 60 minutes with my kids writing a physical letter to Santa, then going out and putting it in a mailbox, I have a fair sense of the answers to the questions above, and whether those answers are things I want to encourage or not.
If they spend 60 minutes interacting with this object, I'm not so sure I feel so confident about the answers.
As far as an object just existing and demanding something, though, I feel like you could say the same about Teddy Ruxpin or a singing bass, both of which fit well into comedy and horror, because they sit on a creepy edge between kitsch and nightmare.
What do you think of my take here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45575175? These 'LLM Role play' toys have hit a real fun spot with my kids.
AI on the other hand
https://dailyai.com/2025/05/chatgpt-is-making-people-think-t...
And this happens to adults who know it’s AI
Just imagine how people must've failed against the first electronic toys 80 years ago, or Pokémon 30 years ago. Ask yourself... if this makes you depressed, what exact kind of new technology would make you happy?
If the other take is luddite, then what's this? Source: "dude trust me"?
> 50 years from now AI powered toys will be so ubiquitous and common to people, they will barely blink.
There was a time where people thought the same about nuclear energy. That every device is powered by its own small reactor. They sold even radioactive toys and medicine.
Or think of plastics. A technological success story but now we find plastics everywhere. On the bottom of the oceans and inside our bodies.
50 years from now people may ask why we wasted so much resources on AI.
This constant negative sentiment on the internet... the brushing off of what has happened. I can only explain it as a form of fear. The fear of the end of human work, human relationships, human interactions...
But I think within that fear is a lack of appreciation of the magnitude of what is happening now.
It's distinguishable from original art in that it is, by definition, derivative and unoriginal.
I have written implementations target at specific boards. So go and buy one of these and boom stick it in anything you want. I have done this for my kids and have a bunch of different characters. My favorite is my daughter has a toy that pretends to be 'the ocean' it is so funny and existential.
* https://github.com/Sean-Der/realtimeai-embedded-respeaker-li...
* https://github.com/Sean-Der/realtimeai-embedded-esp32-s3-box...
I really loved the Sonatino[0], but can't get it anymore :(
If you start building something shoot me an email and would love to help! I want to unblock/enable this space so bad, I think these kinds of projects are just so delightful :)
[0] https://sonatino.com
You can open up the phone and modify the ESP32. I do that pretty often with IoT devices. It's not as easy as setting a URL, but totally possible if you are determined enough.
I totally understand giving it a 'B'. But I promise you that I came at this project with sincere hope that I can build something that brought more joy then it cost into this world.
I have it at home and I think it's worth the money. My 5 year old uses it and the recordings I got from it I will keep forever.
* Santa tried to end the conversation and she said 'no no no wait, one more present'
* It thought she wanted a llama instead of something else and she hysterically laughed. As she gets older I don't hear that as much, and it made me so happy.
I call bullshit on things all the time, so I get the cynicism. But give it a shot! Seeing kids role-play with LLMs and especially when they hallucinate is a lot of fun. Honestly as the software gets better I think it might not be as fun. It almost feels like the joy of using Linux during the editing your Xorg config days. The chaos is what you fall in love with?
dunno
I'm the "I want to pay a premium to buy something once, and to find joy in how every bit of that thing oozes passion and love by its creator" consumer.
I think this is kinda fucked up
> You also pay 15 dollars after the first 60 minutes [for] another 15 min.
Really? 1-900-CALL-SANTA, only $1 a minute, must be under 18 and have stolen your parent's credit card, no refunds whatsoever? Merry Christmas to you, too!
The YouTube video is great! You might want to repost with a new link, the Walmart link is bad (look at the URL)
I'm joking, obviously. Congrats on building something and seeing it come to fruition :)
That did not happen when I tried it with my nieces and nephews. Lots of screaming, incoherent AND I I I REALLY I WANT, yelling over Santa as he was responding, etc. It was a complete flop.
Anyway I would be astonished if this works well for younger kids.
However, since this is Hacker News, I must say I'd probably enjoy building this myself using TTS and LLM APIs...
It's the most fun I have had in a long time. Building a character and having it sit on your desk and chatter/say things you don't expect.
I love absurdism humor. This hits the spot for me.
So the thing costs a 100 dollars and then you can only use it for an hour before needing to pay more?
how hard is it to reprogram?
If you do I would love to help!
[1] Which even many adults apparently don't understand!
To be fair, that is also pretty wild to me.
I would cut open toys and shove microcontrollers in them.
I think if you lie and tell a kid it’s a real person it would be damaging. My kid has fun role playing, she really suspends disbelief. When done she thinks it’s funny though/not confused.
1. After 60 minutes, it turns into junk? Or is there a reload feature? 2. Is every Christmas home going to have a Chinese-made surveillance station with unknown data collection destinations in their home?
I worked as contractor for company that has relationships with Walmart.
Also, if your eight year old is trying to jailbreak Santa, you might have bigger issues to worry about.
Yea, nah
The problem will be random, unsafe responses to the unpredictable things little children will say to Santa
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I have had quite a bit of fun/bonding with my child over it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45575175
Can't help but imagine some kid being shunted off to the side during Christmas with only this thing to talk to while their parents are much too busy drinking and listening to some esoteric tech/acc podcast.
Honestly, it doesn't take much of a good faith effort to see this.
$99 for 60 minutes of your child interacting with, their voice getting sent to Google. In a best case scenario, a parent who could already fill that role is standing by.