OpenClaw is what Apple intelligence should have been

(jakequist.com)

165 points | by jakequist 3 hours ago

51 comments

  • crazygringo 2 hours ago
    > This is exactly what Apple Intelligence should have been... They could have shipped an agentic AI that actually automated your computer instead of summarizing your notifications. Imagine if Siri could genuinely file your taxes, respond to emails, or manage your calendar by actually using your apps, not through some brittle API layer that breaks every update.

    And this is probably coming, a few years from now. Because remember, Apple doesn't usually invent new products. It takes proven ones and then makes its own much nicer version.

    Let other companies figure out the model. Let the industry figure out how to make it secure. Then Apple can integrate it with hardware and software in a way no other company can.

    Right now we are still in very, very, very early days.

    • huwsername 1 hour ago
      I don’t believe this was ever confirmed by Apple, but there was widespread speculation at the time[1] that the delay was due to the very prompt injection attacks OpenClaw users are now discovering. It would be genuinely catastrophic to ship an insecure system with this kind of data access, even with an ‘unsafe mode’.

      These kinds of risks can only be _consented to_ by technical people who correctly understand them, let alone borne by them, but if this shipped there would be thousands of Facebook videos explaining to the elderly how to disable the safety features and open themselves up to identity theft.

      The article also confuses me because Apple _are_ shipping this, it’s pretty much exactly the demo they gave at WWDC24, it’s just delayed while they iron this out (if that is at all possible). By all accounts it might ship as early as next week in the iOS 26.4 beta.

      [1]: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/8/delaying-personalized-s...

      • anon373839 1 hour ago
        Exactly. Apple operates at a scale where it's very difficult to deploy this technology for its sexy applications. The tech is simply too broken and flawed at this point. (Whatever Apple does deploy, you can bet it will be heavily guardrailed.) With ~2.5 billion devices in active use, they can't take the Tesla approach of letting AI drive cars into fire trucks.
        • dmix 51 minutes ago
          This is so obvious I'm kind of surprised the author used to be a software engineer at Google (based on his Linkedin).

          OpenClaw is very much a greenfield idea and there's plenty of startups like Raycast working in this area.

    • Telemakhos 2 hours ago
      Apple's niche product, consisting of like 1-4% of computer sales compared to its dominant MacBook line, is now flying off the shelf as a highly desired product, because of a piece of software that Apple didn't spend a dime developing. This sounds like a major win for Apple.

      The OS maker does not have to make all the killer software. In fact, Apple's pretty much the only game in town that's making hardware and software both.

      • neumann 1 hour ago
        What are you referring to?
        • lanakei 1 hour ago
          Probably the Mac Mini. A few OpenClaw users are buying the agent a dedicated device so that it can integrate with their Apple account.

          For example: https://x.com/michael_chomsky/status/2017686846910959668.

          • koolala 39 minutes ago
            Why would it need more than 1? Couldn't they do this with any Mac with an Apple account?
            • whatsupdog 23 minutes ago
              There are few open source projects coming along that let you sell your compute power in a decentralized way. I don't know how genuine some of these are [0] but it could be the reason: people are just trying to make money.

              0. https://www.daifi.ai/

              • koolala 1 minute ago
                That one definitely looks like a crypto scam.
            • vovavili 30 minutes ago
              Mac Minis are perfect for locally running demanding models because they can effectively use ordinary RAM as VRAM.
        • ajcp 1 hour ago
          Mac-Minis
        • Der_Einzige 1 hour ago
          Mac minis, but they’re only flying off the shelves for the same reason that folks are forced to use iPhones if they want to date: fear of the dreaded green bubble.

          (Yes android users are discriminated against in the dating market, tons of op eds are written about this, just google it before you knee jerk downvote the truth)

          • r14c 1 hour ago
            Imo using android is a great way to filter out extremely boring and vapid individuals from my dating pool.
          • jrflowers 56 minutes ago
            People are buying mac minis so their openclaw instances can date?
            • majormajor 28 minutes ago
              I assume the suggestion is that they need to run their bot on a machine that's up 24x7 (and they don't want to do that with a laptop since they probably carry it places and such), AND they want it to manage their texts by interacting with the Mac version of the Messages app.

              But if you connect those dots you've got people trying to date by having an AI respond to texts from potential dates which seems like you're immediately in red-flag-city and good luck keeping that secret for long enough to get whatever it is you want.

          • velcrovan 1 hour ago
            who's "afraid" of green bubbles? it's like saying a toyota corolla driver is afraid of the ford pinto
            • antinomicus 59 minutes ago
              No it’s like someone owning a Ferrari and looking down on someone who drives a Corolla. Or that’s how they see it, anyway. Plus there’s the annoyance with interoperability: it’s not just about status, it’s about all your iMessage group chats that don’t play nice with android
              • elcritch 41 minutes ago
                Apple chose the colors well. For whatever reason the shade of green they chose just gives a bit of ick.
            • mlrtime 59 minutes ago
              It's a real thing, you're either too old and/or not dating young people. Some do care a lot.
            • sneak 30 minutes ago
              iMessage lock in is a huge thing. When it was new and was still e2ee I ended up buying iPhones for everyone I regularly messaged.

              These days it is insecure however because they backdoored the e2ee and kept it backdoored for the FBI, so now Signal is the only messenger I am reachable on.

              Blue bubble snobbery is presently a mark of ignorance more than anything else.

          • areoform 1 hour ago

               (Yes android users are discriminated against in the dating market, tons of op eds are written about this, just google it before you knee jerk downvote the truth)
            
            If someone is shallow enough to write you off for that, is that someone you want as your partner?
          • usefulcat 36 minutes ago
            You're saying I might have trouble getting a date if I don't have a Mac mini?
        • LeoPanthera 54 minutes ago
          Do you want to know how I can tell you didn't read the article?
    • eykanal 2 hours ago
      > ...Apple doesn't usually invent new products. It takes proven ones and then makes its own much nicer version.

      While this was true about ten years ago, it's been a while since we've seen this model of software development from Apple succeed in recent years. I'm not at all confident that the Apple that gave us Mac OS 26 is capable of doing this anymore.

      • midtake 1 minute ago
        Best privacy in computers, ADP, and M-series chips mean nothing to you? To me, Apple is the last bastion of sanity in a world where user hostility is the norm.
      • Pediatric0191 2 hours ago
        Airtags were released in 2021, I'd say that counts, but generally I agree.
        • atonse 1 hour ago
          Their hardware division has been killing it.

          The software has been where most of the complaints have been in recent years.

          • Nevermark 1 hour ago
            Their software efforts have little ambition. Tweaks and improvements are always a good idea, but without some ambitious effort, nothing special is learned or achieved.

            A "bicycle for the mind" got replaced with a "kiosk for your pocketbook".

            The Vision Pro has an amazing interface, but it's set up as a place to rent videos and buy throwaway novelty iPad-style apps. It allows you to import a Mac screen as a single window, instead of expanding the Mac interface, with its Mac power and flexibility, into the spacial world.

            Great hardware. Interesting, but locked down software.

            If Tim Cook wanted to leave a real legacy product, it should have been a Vision Pro aimed as an upgrade on the Mac interface and productivity. Apple's new highest end interface/device for the future. Not another mid/low-capability iPad type device. So close. So far.

            $3500 for an enforced toy. (And I say all this as someone who still uses it with my Mac, but despairs at the lack of software vision.)

            • msy 1 hour ago
              Not just lack of ambition, lack of vision or taste. Liquid Glass is a step back in almost every way, that it got out the door is an indictment of the entire leadership chain.
            • LoganDark 21 minutes ago
              > It allows you to import a Mac screen as a single window, instead of expanding the Mac interface, with its Mac power and flexibility, into the spacial world.

              I've thought this too. Apple might be one of the only companies that could pull off bringing an existing consumer operating system into 3D space, and they just... didn't.

              On Windows, I tried using screen captures to separate windows into 3D space, but my 3090 would run out of texture space and crash.

              Maybe the second best would be some kind of Wayland compositor.

        • fennecbutt 1 hour ago
          I mean they literally just looked at Tile. And they have the benefit of running the platform. Demonstrates time and time again that they engage in anticompetitive behaviour.
          • cromka 1 hour ago
            No, they didn't just look at Tile. The used a completely new UWB radio technology with a completely new anonymization cryptographic paradigm allowing them to include every single device in network, transparently.

            AirTag is a perfect example of their hardware prowess that even Google fails to replicate to this date.

    • cromka 1 hour ago
      File taxes? That's a tall order, especially juxtaposed with managing calendar or responding to emails.
      • rl3 1 hour ago
        >File taxes?

        Sure why not, what could go wrong?

        "Siri, find me a good tax lawyer."

        "Your honor, my client's AI agent had no intent to willfully evade anything."

        • vips7L 31 minutes ago
          These people live on another planet.
    • raw_anon_1111 1 hour ago
      Absolutely none of the things you quoted that he said an AI agent could do would I want be done for me and I doubt most other people would.
      • Gigachad 8 minutes ago
        It would be an absolute disaster at Apple scale. Millions of people would start using it, filing incorrect taxes or deleting their important files and Apple would be sued endlessly.

        Tiny open source projects can just say "use at your own risk" and offload all responsibility.

    • treetalker 22 minutes ago
      >> Imagine if Siri could genuinely file your taxes

      Imagine if the government would just tell everyone how much they owed and obviated the need for effing literal artificial intelligence to get taxes done!

      >> respond to emails

      If we have an AI that can respond properly to emails, then the email doesn't need to be sent in the first place. (Indeed, many do not need to be sent nowadays either!)

    • dchuk 2 hours ago
      This is generally true only of them going to market with new (to them) physical form factors. They aren’t generally regarded as the best in terms of software innovation (though I think most agree they make very beautiful software)
    • weikju 2 hours ago
      Personal intelligence, the (awkward) feature where you can take a screenshot and get Siri to explain stuff, and the new spotlight features where you can type out stuff you want to do in apps probably hints at that…
    • FireBeyond 1 hour ago
      > And this is probably coming, a few years from now. Because remember, Apple doesn't usually invent new products. It takes proven ones and then makes its own much nicer version.

      Except this doesn't stand up to scrutiny, when you look at Siri. FOURTEEN years and it is still spectacularly useless.

      I have no idea what Siri is a "much nicer version" of.

      > Apple can integrate it with hardware and software in a way no other company can.

      And in the case of Apple products, oftentimes "because Apple won't let them".

      Lest I be called an Apple hater, I have 3 Apple TVs in my home, my daily driver is a M2 Ultra Studio with a ProDisplay XDR, and an iPad Pro that shows my calendar and Slack during the day and comes off at night. iPhone, Apple Watch Ultra.

      But this is way too worshipful of Apple.

      • jacinabox 1 hour ago
        Remember the time when the former members of the Siri team demoed a prototype for a more capable version of Siri and Apple didn't even use it
      • ejoso 1 hour ago
        In that list of Apple products that you own, do none of them match the ops comment? You’re saying none of those products are or have been in their time in the market a perfected version of other things?

        There are lots of failed products in nearly every company’s portfolio.

        AirTags were mentioned elsewhere, but I can think of others too. Perfected might be too fuzzy & subjective a term though.

        • FireBeyond 33 minutes ago
          We're talking about Apple Intelligence here and its ... "precursor" ... Siri.

          Both of which have been absolutely underwhelming if not outright laughable in certain ways.

          Apple has done plenty right. These two, which are the closest to the article, are not it.

      • danielheath 1 hour ago
        Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I feel sure that Siri was much better a decade ago than it is today. Basic voice commands that used to work are no longer recognised, or required you to unlock the phone in situations where hands free operation is the whole point of using a voice command.
        • FireBeyond 1 hour ago
          There were certain commands that worked just fine. But they, in Apple's way, required you to "discover" what worked and what didn't with no hints, and then there were illogical gaps like "this grouping should have three obvious options, but you can only do one via Siri".

          And then some of its misinterpretations were hilariously bad.

          Even now, I get at a technical level that CarPlay and Siri might be separate "apps" (although CarPlay really seems like it should be a service), and as such, might have separate permissions but then you have the comical scenario of:

          Being in your car, CarPlay is running and actively navigating you somewhere, and you press your steering wheel voice control button. "Give me directions to the nearest Starbucks" and Siri dutifully replies, "Sorry, I don't know where you are."

    • bigyabai 2 hours ago
      > Then Apple can integrate it with hardware and software in a way no other company can.

      That's a pretty optimistic outlook. All considered, you're not convinced they'll just use it as a platform to sell advertisements and lock-out competitors a-la the App Store "because everyone does it"?

    • iwontberude 2 hours ago
      Can you understand how this commoditizes applications? The developers would absolutely have a fit. There is a reason this hasn’t been done already. It’s not lack of understanding or capability, it’s financial reality. Shortcuts is the compromise struck in its place.
    • Nursie 29 minutes ago
      > Imagine if Siri could genuinely file your taxes, respond to emails, or manage your calendar

      > And this is probably coming, a few years from now.

      Given how often I say "Hey Siri, fast forward", expecting her to skip the audio forward by 30 seconds, and she replies "Calling Troy S" a roofing contractor who quoted some work for me last year, and then just starts calling him without confirmation, which is massively embarassing...

      This idea terrifies me.

    • eboy 1 hour ago
      [dead]
    • wetpaws 1 hour ago
      [dead]
    • calvinmorrison 2 hours ago
      Apple literally lives on the "Cutting Edge" a-la XKCD [1]. My wife is an iPerson and she always tells me about these new features (my phone has had them since $today-5 years). But for her, these are brand new exciting things!

      https://xkcd.com/606/

      • lukevp 2 hours ago
        How many chat products has Google come out with? Google messenger, buzz, wave, meet, Google+, hangouts… Apple has iMessage and FaceTime. You just restated OP’s point. Apple evolves things slowly and comes to market when the problems have already been solved in a myriad of ways, so they can be solved once and consistently. It’s not about coming to market soonest. How did you get that from what OP said?
        • fennecbutt 1 hour ago
          Pointless argument given that android isn't just "android". Never has been.

          It's a huge, diverse ecosystem of players and that's probably why Android has always gotten the coolest stuff first. But it's also its achilles' heel in some ways.

          • raw_anon_1111 1 hour ago
            Except operating system and security updates…
        • calvinmorrison 2 hours ago
          "It’s not about coming to market soonest. "

          First Mover effect seems only relevant when goverment warrants are involved. Think radio licenses, medical patents, etc. Everywhere else, being a first mover doesnt seem to correlate like it should to success.

          • drBonkers 1 hour ago
            Network effects.

            See social media, bitcoin, iOS App Store, blu-ray, Xbox live, and I’m sure more I can’t think of rn.

            • calvinmorrison 1 hour ago
              Network effects are maybe akin to "phsyical effects". Non-monopoly but physical space is also another 'first mover' type of moat.
      • dangus 1 hour ago
        A very tired “red versus blue” take here.

        There are plenty of Android/Windows things that Apple has had for $today-5 years that work the exact same way.

        One side isn’t better than the other, it’s really just that they copy each other doing various things at a different pace or arrive at that point in different ways.

        Some examples:

        - Android is/was years behind on granular permissions, e.g. ability to grant limited photo library access to apps

        - Android has no platform-wide equivalent to AirTags

        - Hardware-backed key storage (Secure Enclave about 5 years ahead of StrongBox)

        - system-wide screen recording

        • fennecbutt 1 hour ago
          Android is an OS, not hardware tho so some of those can't really be judged equivalently.
          • dangus 18 minutes ago
            Half of my examples were 100% software based, and this list is by no means comprehensive.

            Google has been making their own phone hardware since 2010. And surely they can call up Qualcomm and Samsung if they want to.

  • xngbuilds 2 minutes ago
    I imagine in a few years our phone will become our AI assistant, locally and cloud powered, that understand us deeply. And Apple will release a human robot, loaded with the same intelligence in the phone to become our home assistant or companion. But first Apple needs to allow us to rename our phone agent/helper other than Siri.
  • fooker 2 hours ago
    > I suspect ten years from now, people will look back at 2024-2025 as the moment Apple had a clear shot at owning the agent layer and chose not to take it

    Ten years from now, there will be no ‘agent layer’. This is like predicting Microsoft failed to capitalize on bulletin boards social media.

    • keyle 14 minutes ago
      We are likely the last generation to know how to use a keyboard. Sadly.

      Kids can barely hand write today.

      Once neural interfaces are in, it's over for keyboards and displays likely too.

      • thepasswordis 3 minutes ago
        Just as a reminder, 15 years ago was 2011.

        That was...like 4 macbooks ago. I still have keyboards from that era. I still have speakers and monitors from that era kicking around.

        We are definitely, definitely not the last generation to use keyboards.

    • JimDabell 1 hour ago
      Ten years from now, the agent layer will be the interface the majority of people use a computer through. Operating systems will become more agentic and absorb the application layer while platforms like Claude Cowork will try to become the omniapp. They’ll meet in the middle and it will be like Microsoft trying to fight Netscape’s view of the web as the omniapp all over again.

      Apple will either capitalise on this by making their operating systems more agentic, or they will be reduced to nothing more than a hardware and media vendor.

      • nilamo 18 minutes ago
        I hope so. We're right on the cusp of having computers that actually are everything we ever wanted them to be, ever since scifi started describing devices that could do things for us. There's just a few pesky details left to iron out (who pays for it, insane power demand, opaque models, non-existent security, etc etc).

        Things actually can "do what I mean, not what I say", now. Truly fascinating to see develop.

      • oidar 1 hour ago
        I think you are right. In fact, if were a regular office worker today, a Claude subscription could possibly be the only piece of software you might need to open for days in a row to be productive. You can check messages, send messages, modify documents, create documents, do research, and so on. You could even have it check on news and forums for you (if they could be crawled that is).
      • fooker 1 hour ago
        I don’t doubt the end goal.

        My point is that it won’t be a ‘layer’ like it is now and the technology will be completely different from what we see as agents today.

    • thewhitetulip 2 hours ago
      Or how "your next meeting will be in Metaverse"
      • FeteCommuniste 1 hour ago
        Hoping that LLMs go the way of the Metaverse.
        • fnord77 32 minutes ago
          there is little chance of that, especially with people running them locally
      • fooker 1 hour ago
        Good example.
    • podnami 2 hours ago
      Is your prediction that most people actually like to use software?
      • fooker 1 hour ago
        No it’ll be some idea we have not developed or named yet.

        The current ‘agent’ ecosystem is just hacks on top of hacks.

    • CuriouslyC 1 hour ago
      If you're arguing that in 10 years we won't have fully automated systems where we interact more with the automation than the functionality, I've got news for you...
      • fooker 1 hour ago
        I’m saying we won’t call it agents and it will involve substantially different technology compared to what we mean by agents today.

        Of course AI will keep improving and more automation is a given.

  • IcyWindows 2 hours ago
    According to https://1password.com/blog/from-magic-to-malware-how-opencla..., The top skill is/was malware.

    It's obviously broken, so no, Apple Intelligence should not have been this.

    • yoyohello13 1 hour ago
      I feel like I’m watching group psychosis where people are just following each other off a cliff. I think the promise of AI and the potential money involved override all self preservation instincts in some people.

      It would be fine if I could just ignore it, but they are infecting the entire industry.

    • janalsncm 1 hour ago
      I had a dark thought today, that AI agents are going to make scam factory jobs obsolete. I don’t think this will decrease the number of forced labor kidnappings though, since there are many things AI agents will not be good at.
  • keyle 1 hour ago

               people are buying Mac Minis specifically to run AI agents with computer use. They’re setting up headless machines whose sole job is to automate their workflows. OpenClaw—the open-source framework that lets you run Claude, GPT-4, or whatever model you want to actually control your computer—has become the killer app for Mac hardware
    
    That makes little sense. Buying mac mini would imply for the fused v-ram with the gpu capabilities, but then they're saying Claude/GPT-4 which don't have any gpu requirements.

    Is the author implying mac minis for the low power consumption?

    • roncesvalles 31 minutes ago
      It doesn't make sense because it's a lie. The author's blog has 2 articles, both of them shilling OpenClaw.
      • zarp 11 minutes ago
        Spoiler: the author is an OpenClaw instance.
    • bronco21016 1 hour ago
      If you’re heavily invested in Apple apps (iMessage/Calendar/Reminders/Notes), you need a Mac to give the agent tools to interact with these apps. I think that combined with the form factor, price, and power consumption, makes it an ideal candidate.

      If you’re heavily invested in Windows, then you’d probably go for a small x86 PC.

      • oidar 1 hour ago
        Some of those connectors are only available on the mac and some only on the iPhone. Like notes is available on the mac, but not on the phone. Vice versa for reminders.
      • keyle 28 minutes ago
        Can you imagine giving an AI access to your messages, notes and calendar though?

        I use agentic coding, this is next level madness.

    • ed_mercer 1 hour ago
      Yep, there is zero reason to use mac mini’s. It’s way more cost effective to rent one (or more!) small VMs the cloud.
    • MisterBiggs 33 minutes ago
      It has nothing to do with running models locally, its perfect because its incredibly cheap, capable, small, and quiet.
    • colecut 1 hour ago
      I have seen dozens of people/videos talking about buying Mac minis for clawdbot.

      I don't understand why, but I've seen it enough to start questioning myself...

    • AstroBen 52 minutes ago
      Wouldn't it run on a $50 raspberry pi?

      Probably the same people getting a macbook pro to handle their calendar and emails

      • JKCalhoun 27 minutes ago
        I thought I had heard that the integrated RAM/VRAM makes local LLMs fairly quick on a RAM-maxxed Mac Mini.
    • MPSimmons 1 hour ago
      The software can drive the web browser if you install the plugin. My knowledge is 1.5 weeks old, so it might be able to drive the whole UI now, I don't know.
      • keyle 52 minutes ago
        Welcome to the AI meme race where everyone's knowledge is about 1.5 weeks old :)
    • wesammikhail 1 hour ago
      The author is full of shit is what it is. They see a few posts online and extrapolate from that to fit whatever narrative they believe in.
    • daifi 1 hour ago
      Claude/GPT-4 don't have any GPU requirements?
      • keyle 1 hour ago
        No dude, you send text or images and get the same back, it's all cloud.
  • throwaway613746 2 hours ago
    OpenClaw is a security NIGHTMARE - Apple would never.
    • bee_rider 2 hours ago
      It is absurd enough of a project that everybody basically expects it to be secure, right? It is some wild niche thing for people who like to play with new types of programs.

      This is not a train that Apple has missed, this is a bunch of people who’ve tied, nailed, tacked, and taped their unicycles and skateboards together. Of course every cool project starts like that, but nobody is selling tickets for that ride.

      • DrewADesign 1 hour ago
        I think a lot of people have been spoiled (beneficially) by using large, professionally-run SaaS services where your only serious security concerns were keeping your credentials secret, and mitigating the downstream effects of data breaches. I could see having a fundamentally different understanding of security having only experienced that.

        What people are talking about doing with OpenClaw I find absolutely insane.

        • dmix 43 minutes ago
          > What people are talking about doing with OpenClaw I find absolutely insane.

          Based on their homepage the project is two months old and the guy described it as something he "hacked together over a weekend project" [1] and published it on github. So this is very much the Raspberry Pi crowd coming up with crazy ideas and most of them probably don't work well, but the potential excites them enough to dabble in risky areas.

          [1] https://openclaw.ai/blog/introducing-openclaw

    • elictronic 2 hours ago
      Apple had problems with just the Chatbot side of LLMs because they couldn't fully control the messaging. Add in a small helping of losing your customers entire net worth and yeah. These other posters have no idea what they are talking about.
      • joshstrange 2 hours ago
        Exactly, Apple is entirely too conservative to shine with LLMs due to their uncontrollability, Apple likes their control and their version of "protecting people" (which I don't fully agree with) which includes "We are way too scared to expose our clients to something we can't control and stop from doing/saying anything bad!", which may end up being prudent. They won't come close to doing something like OpenClaw for at least a few more years when the tech is (hopefully) safer and/or the Overton Window has shifted.
        • FireBeyond 1 hour ago
          And yet they'll push out AI-driven "message summaries" that are horrifically bad and inaccurate, often summarizing the intent of a message as the complete opposite of the full message up to and including "wants to end relationship; will see you later"?
          • fennecbutt 1 hour ago
            Was about to point out the same thing. Apple's desperate rush to market, summarising news headlines badly and sometimes just plain hallucinating stuff causing many public figured to react when they end up the target of such mishaps.
    • gordonhart 2 hours ago
      Clawdbot/Moltbot/OpenClaw is so far from figuring out the “trust” element for agents that it’s baffling the OP even chose to bring it up in his argument
  • notatoad 1 hour ago
    this seems obviously true, but at the same time very very wrong. openclaw / moltbot / whatever it's called today is essentially a thought experiment of "what happens if we just ignore all that silly safety stuff"

    which obviously apple can't do. only an indie dev launching a project with an obvious copyright violation in the name can get away with that sort of recklessness. it's super fun, but saying apple should do it now is ridiculous. this is where apple should get to eventually, once they figure out all the hard problems that moltbot simply ignores by doing the most dangerous thing possible at every opportunity.

    • charcircuit 1 hour ago
      Apple has a lot of power over the developers on its platforms. As a thought experiment let's say they did launch it. It would put real skin in the game for getting security right. Who cares if a thousand people using openclaw. Millions of iOS users having such an assistant will spur a lot of investment towards safety.
      • notatoad 18 minutes ago
        >It would put real skin in the game for getting security right.

        lol,no, you don't "put skin in the game for getting security right" by launching an obviously insecure thing. that's ridiculous. you get security right by actually doing something to address the security concerns.

  • tzury 11 minutes ago
    The notion that if it is good then the big-ones should have done it is the complete opposite of innovation, startups and entrepreneurial culture.

    Reality is the exact opposite. Young, innovative, rebellions, often hyper motivated folks are sprinting from idea to implementation, while executives are “told by a few colleagues” that something new, “the future-of foo” is raising up.

    If you use openclaw then that’s fantastic. If you have an idea how to improve it, well it is an open source, so go ahead, submit a pull request.

    Telling Apple you should do what I am probably too lazy to do, is kind of entitlement blogging that I have nearly zero respect for.

    Apparently it’s easier to give unsolicited advice to public companies than building. Ask the interns at EY and McKinsey.

  • tgma 2 minutes ago
    Mac minis out of stock because of OpenClaw?

    Nah if they are actually out of stock (I've only seen it out of stock at exceptional Microcenter prices; Apple is more than happy to sell you at full price) it is because there's a transition to M5 and they want to clear the old stock. OpenClaw is likely a very small portion of the actual Mac mini market, unless you are living in a very dense tech area like San Francisco.

    One thing of note that people may forget is that the models were not that great just a year ago, so we need to give it time before counting chickens.

  • root_axis 29 minutes ago
    The OpenClaw concept is fundamentally insecure by design and prompt injection means it can never be secure.

    If Apple were to ever put something like that into the hands of the masses every page on the internet would be stuffed with malicious prompts, and the phishing industry would see a revival the likes of which we can only imagine.

  • fnordpiglet 1 hour ago
    After having spent a few days with OpenClaw I have to say it’s about the worst software I’ve worked with ever. Everyone focused on the security flaws but the software itself is barely coherent. It’s like Moltbook wrote OpenClaw wrote Moltbook in some insidious wiggum loop from hell with no guard rails. The commit rate on the project reflects this.
  • chatmasta 2 hours ago
    > Apple had everything: the hardware, the ecosystem, the reputation for “it just works.”

    It sounds to me like they still have the hardware, since — according to the article — "Mac Minis are selling out everywhere." What's the problem? If anything, this is validation of their hardware differentiation. The software is easy to change, and they can always learn from OpenClaw for the next iteration of Apple Intelligence.

    • fennecbutt 1 hour ago
      Because people are forced to buy them. Same as how datacenters are full of mac minis to build iOS apps that could easily be built on any hardware if Apple weren't such corporate bastards.
    • sanex 2 hours ago
      I don't think it's hardware differentiation as much as vendor lock in because it lets people send iMessages with their agent. Not sure about the running local models on it though.
  • lo_fye 27 minutes ago
    Given that OpenClaw isn’t a lot of code, Apple could still build their own. After all, a hyper-personal AI Assistant is what they announced as “Apple Intelligence” two WWDCs ago. Or the could buy OpenClaw, hand it to the Shortcuts team, throw in their remaining AI devs, and Bob’s your uncle. They aren’t first to OpenClaw, but maybe they can still be the best. I know I’d like to be sure it can’t erase my entire disk just because i sneeze when I’m telling it what to do.
  • kempje 13 minutes ago
    This reads like it was written by an LLM.
  • JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago
    > ten years from now, people will look back at 2024-2025 as the moment Apple had a clear shot at owning the agent layer and chose not to take it

    Why is Apple's hardware being in demand for a use that undermines its non-Chinese competition a sign of missing the ball versus validation for waiting and seeing?

  • razodactyl 36 minutes ago
    My opinion is it seems counter to what made Apple so successful in the first place: second mover advantage, see where everyone else fails and plug the gap.

    You're right on the liability front - Apple still won because everyone bought their hardware and their margins are insanely good. It's not that they're sitting by waiting to become irrelevant, they're playing the long game as they always do.

  • avaer 2 hours ago
    > An AI agent that clicks buttons.

    Are people's agents actually clicking buttons (visual computer use) or is this just a metaphor?

    I'm not asking if CU exists, but rather is this literally the driver of people's workflows? I thought everyone is just running Ralph loops in CC.

    For an article making such a bold technological/social claim about a trillion dollar company, this seems a strange thing to be hand wavey about.

    • monkpit 2 hours ago
      Not mine, the plugin doesn’t work on Mac apparently :) a bug with calculating coordinates to click.
    • nerdsniper 2 hours ago
      Https://heyblue.com does, very helpful for people with disabilities or when driving.
      • verdverm 2 hours ago
        get off your devices when driving, it's as dangerous as being drunk behind the wheel
        • nerdsniper 2 hours ago
          You don’t look at it, you just talk to it and it can talk back to you. It’s more just having a conversation with a personal assistant while driving. Which is a pretty common thing to do.
          • Schiendelman 1 hour ago
            That is nearly as dangerous - it causes inattention blindness.
  • TheRoque 1 hour ago
    This post completely has it backwards, people are buying Apple hardware because they don't shove AI down everyone's throat unlike microsoft. And in a few weeks OpenClaw will be outdated or deemed too unsecure anyways, it will never be a long-term products, it's just some crazy experiment for the memes.
  • varenc 1 hour ago
    Apple has a very low tolerance for reputional liabilities. They aren't going to roll out something that %0.01 of the time does something bad, because with 100M devices that's something that'll affect 10,000 people, and have huge potential to cause bad PR, damaging the brand and trust.
    • nielsbot 1 hour ago
      I think this is exactly the holdup with Apple Intelligence. No rush to ship a Beta.

      (Ok, I suspect this is one of the main problems.. there may be others?)

  • Sharlin 1 hour ago
    Apparently APIs are now a brittle way for software to use other software and interpreting and manipulating human GUIs with emulated mouse clicks and keypresses is a much better and perfectly reasonable way to do it. We’re truly living in a bizarro timeline.
    • ajcp 1 hour ago
      As someone who has spent a good portion of my career in the RPA/intelligent automation field this take was a spit-coffee-close-laptop moment.
  • ed_mercer 59 minutes ago
    The author is a bit extreme for expecting apple to have done something as complex as ooenclaw, not even OpenAI or Anthropic have really done it yet.

    However this does not excuse Apple to sit with their thumbs up their asses for all these years.

    • dmix 41 minutes ago
      > However this does not excuse Apple to sit with their thumbs up their asses for all these years.

      They've been wildly successful for all of those years. They've never been in the novel software business. Siri though one could argue was neglected, but it was also neglected at Amazon Alexa and Google home stuff still sucks too (mostly because none of them made any money and most of their big ideas for voice assistants never came true).

  • RyanShook 1 hour ago
    In terms of useful AI agents, Siri/Apple Intelligence has been behind for so long that no one expects it to be any good.

    I used to think this was because they didn’t take AI seriously but my assumption now is that Apple is concerned about security over everything else.

    My bet is that Google gets to an actually useful AI assistant before Apple because we know they see it as their chance to pull ahead of Apple in the consumer market, they have the models to do it, and they aren’t overly concerned about user privacy or security.

  • janalsncm 1 hour ago
    I think there is a contradiction between

    > the open-source framework that lets you run Claude, GPT-4, or whatever model you want to

    And

    > Here’s what people miss about moats: they compound

    Swapping an OpenAI for an Anthropic or open weight model is the opposite of compounding. It is a race to the bottom.

    > Apple had everything: the hardware, the ecosystem, the reputation for “it just works.”

    From what I hear OC is not like that at all. People are going to want a model that reliably does what you tell it to do inside of (at a minimum) the Apple ecosystem.

  • rTX5CMRXIfFG 2 hours ago
    This article is talking about the AI race as if it’s over when it’s only started. And really, an opinion of the entire market based on a few reddit posts?

    Author spoke of compounding moats, yet Apple’s market share, highly performant custom silicon, and capital reserves just flew over his head. HN can have better articles to discuss AI with than this myopic hot take.

  • terminalbraid 3 hours ago
    Expensive and overhyped?
    • ArchieScrivener 2 hours ago
      How is that not right up Apples alley?
      • thewhitetulip 2 hours ago
        Because Apple products at least work deterministically

        They don't say here is a 1000 $ iphone and there is a 60% chance you can successfully message or call a friend

        The other 40% well? AGI is right around the corner and can US govt pls give me 1 trillion dollar loan and a bailout?

        • criddell 2 hours ago
          When I ask Siri to play some album on Spotify, it feels like it works about 60% of the time.
        • sanex 2 hours ago
          So far my agents has worked better than Siri and afaik nobody has actually asked for a bailout yet.
  • dcreater 1 hour ago
    This is Yellow Pages type thinking in the age of the internet. No one is going to own an agentic layer (list any of the multitude of platforms already irrelevant like OpenAI Agent SDK, Google A2A) . No one is going to own a new app store (GPTs are already dead). No one is going to foundation models (FOSS models are extremely capable today). No one is going to own inference (Data centers will never be as cost effective as that old MacBook collecting dust that is plenty capable of running a 1B model that can compete with ChatGPT 3.5 and all the use cases that it already was good at like writing high school essays, recipes etc.) The only thing that is sticking is Markdown (SKILLS.md, AGENTS.md)

    This is because the simple reality of this new technology is that this is not the local maxima. Any supposed wall you attempt to put up will fail - real estate website closes its API? Fine, a CUA+VLM will make it trivial to navigate/extract/use. We will finally get back to the right solution of protocols over platforms, file over app, local over cloud or you know the way things were when tech was good.

    P.S: You should immediately call BS when you see outrageous and patently untrue claims like "Mac minis are sold out all over.." - I checked my Best Buy in the heart of SF and they have stock. Or "that its all over Reddit, HN" - the only thing that is all over Reddit is unanimous derision towards OpenClaw and its security nightmares.

    Utterly hate the old world mentality in this post. Looked up the author and ofcourse, he's from VC.

    • nielsbot 1 hour ago
      > No one is going to own an agentic layer

      Don't underestimate the capitalists. We've seen this many times in the past--most recently the commercialization of the Internet. Before that, phones, radio and television.

      • dcreater 1 hour ago
        Fair enough. This is my war time rhetoric. Its up to us to effect the future we want.
  • ozten 1 hour ago
    Trust takes years to build, seconds to break, and forever to repair.
  • b1temy 1 hour ago
    > ten years from now, people will look back at 2024-2025 as the moment Apple had a clear shot at owning the agent layer and chose not to take it

    I don't pretend to know the future (nor do I believe anyone else who claims to be able to), but I think the opposite has a good chance of happening too, and hype would die down over "AI" and the bubble bursts, and the current overvaluation (imo at least. I still think it is useful as a tool, but overhyped by many who don't understand it.) will be corrected by the market; and people will look back and see it as the moment that Apple dodged a bullet. (Or more realistically, won't think about it at all).

    I know you can't directly compare different situations, but I wonder if comparisons can be made with dot-com bubble. There was such hype some 20-30 years ago, with claims of just being a year or two away from, "being able to watch TV over the internet" or "do your shopping on the web" or "have real-time video calls online", which did eventually come true, but only much, much, later, after a crash from inflated expectations and a slower steady growth.*

    * Not that I think some claims about "AI" will ever come true though, especially the more outlandish ones such as full-length movies made by a prompt of the same quality made by a Hollywood director.

    I don't know what a potential "breaking point" would be for "AI". Perhaps a major security breach, even _worse_ prices for computer hardware than it is now, politics, a major international incident, environmental impact being made more apparent, companies starting to more aggressively monetize their "AI", consumers realising the limits of "AI", I have no idea. And perhaps I'm just wrong, and this is the age we live in now for the foreseeable future. After all, more than one of the things I have listed have already happened, and nothing happened.

    • username223 29 minutes ago
      > consumers realising the limits of "AI",

      This is my guess for the demand side: most people will drift away as the novelty wears off and they don't find it useful in their daily lives. It's more a "fading point" than a "breaking point."

      From the investment/speculation side: something will go dramatically against the narrative. OpenAI's attempted "liquidity event" of an IPO looks like WeWork as investors get a look at the numbers, Oracle implodes in a mountain of debt, NVidia cuts back on vendor financing and some major public players (e.g. Coreweave) die in a fire. This one will be a "breaking point."

  • yalogin 2 hours ago
    Apple doesn’t enable 3rd party services without having extreme control over the flow and without it directly benefiting their own bottom line.
  • cadamsdotcom 2 hours ago
    Unfortunately by not doing that they only managed to be the most valuable company ever.

    So yeah, the market isn’t really signaling companies to make nice things.

    • malfist 2 hours ago
      Openclaw is a nice thing?
      • cadamsdotcom 1 hour ago
        What it is supposed to do is nice, separate from the risks.
  • ankit219 2 hours ago
    > And they would have won the AI race not by building the best model, but by being the only company that could ship an AI you’d actually trust with root access to your computer.

    and the very next line (because i want to emphasize it

    > That trust—built over decades—was their moat.

    This just ignores the history of os development at apple. The entire trajectory is moving towards permissions and sandboxing even if it annoys users to no end. To give access to an llm (any llm, not just a trusted one acc to author) the root access when its susceptible to hallucinations, jailbreak etc. goes against everything Apple has worked for.

    And even then the reasoning is circular. "So you build all your trust, now go ahead and destroy it on this thing which works, feels good to me, but could occasionally fuck up in a massive way".

    Not defending Apple, but this article is so far detached from reality that its hard to overstate.

  • Aurornis 1 hour ago
    OpenClaw is a very fun project, but it would be considered a dumpster fire if any mainstream company tried to sell it. Every grassroots project gets evaluated on a completely different scale than commercial products. Trying to compare an experimental community project to a hypothetical commercial offering doesn't work.

    > They could have charged $500 more per device and people would have paid it.

    I sincerely doubt that. If Apple charged $500 for a feature it would have to be completely bulletproof. Every little failure and bad output would be harshly criticized against the $500 price tag. Apple's high prices are already a point of criticism, so adding $500 would be highly debated everywhere.

  • jesse_dot_id 1 hour ago
    It's just the juiciest attack surface of all time so I vehemently disagree.
  • orliesaurus 1 hour ago
    How much revenue do you think Apple made EXTRA from people buying Mac minis for this hype?
  • luckydata 27 minutes ago
    I think openclaw is proving that the use case while promising is very much too early and nobody can ship a system like that that works the way a consumer expects it to work.
  • oxqbldpxo 1 hour ago
    This! Def a game changer for apple.
  • yoyohello13 1 hour ago
    If you can’t see why something like OpenClaw is not ready for production I don’t know what to tell you. People’s perceptions are so distorted by FOMO they are completely ignoring the security implications and dangers of giving an LLM keys to your life.

    I’m sure apple et al will eventually have stuff like OpenClaw but expecting a major company to put something so unpolished, and with such major unknowns, out is just asinine.

  • vivzkestrel 17 minutes ago
    - I give openclaw another 3 months before it fades into obscurity
  • MuffinFlavored 4 minutes ago
    > Imagine if Siri could genuinely file your taxes

    I do not like reading things like this. It makes me feel very disconnected from the AI community. I defensively do not believe there exist people who would let AI do their taxes.

  • deadbabe 50 minutes ago
    I used to have little cron jobs that would fire small python scripts daily to help me detect when certain clothes were on sale or in stock on a website it scraped and then send me an email or text. I was proud of that “automation”.

    I guess now I’ll just use an AI agent to do the same thing instantly :(

  • roncesvalles 32 minutes ago
    >Something strange is happening with Mac Minis. They’re selling out everywhere

    Straight up bullshit.

  • camillomiller 1 hour ago
    “People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on. But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully. I'm actually as proud of the things we haven't done as the things I have done. Innovation is saying no to 1,000 things.”

    Steve Jobs

  • raincole 2 hours ago
    > If you browse Reddit or HN, you’ll see the same pattern: people are buying Mac Minis specifically to run AI agents with computer use.

    Saved you a click. This is the premise of the article.

    • krackers 2 hours ago
      Why specifically mac mini? There are cheaper NUCs and it's not like they're running a local model on the mac mini are they?
      • atommclain 1 hour ago
        I believe it’s to integrate with iMessage, Calendar, Reminders etc.
      • mh2266 1 hour ago
        it's so that your agent can access your 2fa codes sent over messages

        no, seriously, that is a thing people are using it for

  • AlexCoventry 57 minutes ago
    ...And it will be, now that Apple has partnered with OpenAI. The foundation of OpenClaw is capable models.
  • semiquaver 2 hours ago
    I genuinely don't understand this take. What makes OP think that the company that failed so utterly to even deliver mediocre AI -- siri is stuck in 2015! -- would be up to the task of delivering something as bonkers as Clawdbot?
  • fortran77 1 hour ago
    No no no. It's too risky, cutting-edge, and dangerous. While fun to play with, it's not something I'd trust my 92 year old mother with dementia (who still uses an iPad) with.
  • EGreg 20 minutes ago
    No. Emphatically NOT. Apple has done a great job safeguarding people's devices and privacy from this crap. And no, AI slop and local automation is scarcely better than giving up your passwords to see pictures of cats, which is an old meme about the gullibility of the general public.

    OpenClaw is a symbol of everything that's wrong with AI, the same way that shitty memecoins with teams that rugpull you, or blockchain-adjacent centralized "give us your money and we pinky swear we are responsible" are a symbol of everything wrong with Web3.

    Giving everyone GPU compute power and open source models to use it is like giving everyone their own Wuhan Gain of Function Lab and hoping it'll be fine. Um, the probability of NO ONE developing bad things with AI goes to 0 as more people have it. Here's the problem: with distributed unstoppable compute, even ONE virus or bacterium escaping will be bad (as we've seen with the coronavirus for instance, smallpox or the black plague, etc.) And here we're talking about far more active and adaptable swarms of viruses that coordinate and can wreak havoc at unlimited scale.

    As long as countries operate on the principle of competition instead of cooperation, we will race towards disaster. The horse will have left the barn very shortly, as open source models running on dark compute will begin to power swarms of bots to be unstoppable advanced persistent threats (as I've been warning for years).

    Gain-of-function research on viruses is the closest thing I can think of that's as reckless. And at least there, the labs were super isolated and locked down. This is like giving everyone their own lab to make designer viruses, and hoping that we'll have thousands of vaccines out in time to prevent a worldwide catastrophe from thousands of global persistent viruses. We're simply headed towards a nearly 100% likely disaster if we don't stop this.

    If I had my way, AI would only run in locked-down environments and we'd just use inert artifacts it produces. This is good enough for just about all the innovations we need, including for medical breakthroughs and much more. We know where the compute is. We can see it from space. Lawmakers still have a brief window to keep it that way before the genie cannot be put back into the bottle.

    A decade ago, I really thought AI would be responsible developed like this: https://nautil.us/the-last-invention-of-man-236814/ I still remember the quaint time when OpenAI and other companies promised they'd vet models really strongly before releasing them or letting them use the internet. That was... 2 years ago. It was considered an existential risk. No one is talking about that now. MCP just recently was the new hotness.

    I wasn't going to get too involved with building AI platforms but I'm diving in and a month from now I will release an alternative to OpenClaw that actually shows the way how things are supposed to go. It involves completely locked-down environments, with reproducible TEE bases and hashes of all models, and even deterministic AI so we can prove to each other the provenance of each output all the way down to the history of the prompts and input images. I've already filed two provisional patents on both of these and I'm going to implement it myself (not an NPE). But even if it does everything as well as OpenClaw and even better and 100% safely, some people will still want to run local models on general purpose computing environments. The only way to contain the runaway explosion now is to come together the same way countries have come together to ban chemical weapons, CFCs (in the Montreal protocol), let the hole in the ozone layer heal, etc. It is still possible...

    This is how I feel:

    https://www.instagram.com/reels/DIUCiGOTZ8J/

    PS: Historically, for the last 15 years, I've been a huge proponent of open source and an opponent of patents. When it comes to existential threats of proliferation, though, I am willing to make an exception on both.

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