I always loved the story of the "three-sided" Monty Python record, where the B side had two parallel concentric grooves, causing different tracks to play depending on where the needle was dropped. I always wondered what kind of equipment went into producing it.
The same goes for the 1994 first pressing of Marillion's Brave.
Side 4 has a double groove, which would give you either The Great Escape + Made again (a sort of a happy ending) or The Great Escape + 20 minutes of water sounds (which can be interpreted as the sad ending).
De La Soul's 12" Single for "Me Myself And I" also has its second side cut with two grooves. The hype sticker says, "3 Sides." Each time you put the needle down you have a 50/50 chance to hear the song you're trying to hear. :-)
From what I know about record manufacturing, creating the lacquer master would involve adjusting the angle of the groove to allow for two concentric grooves to be laid, along with some care in creating that master. But once it’s done, the manufacturing process is handled through a stamping process (so a vinyl record isn’t cut, it’s pressed with a metal die that’s created from the lacquer master through electroplating).
You’d cut it normal equipment, with very wide groove spacing. Start the two grooves 180 degrees out of phase. They’ll never intersect.
You could do it with more than two grooves, just to having them at 360/n degrees apart. You’ll just have to make the groove spacing wider as the number of tracks go off. Of course that comes at the cost of playback tine.
Unrelated, but related - if you want to have 1 record made, reach out to https://recordcut.com/
Their hours are "2:30 PM to 12 Midnight", I sort of believe... 7 days a week?
Rich will actually answer the phone, and guide you. I've done it a few times (it's an incredibly cool gift). A single record is $12. Extremely worth experiencing it.
id pay to watch mkbhd(or similar) review the apc-2. and compare one made on apc-2 to someone like recordcut(or similar). that said. im glad companies like teenage are catering to the whimsy. because why not. im sure it will sell out. and they will stop producing it after they have scratched the itch of wanting to create a product like it. and hopefully after that we can get our hands on the un-redacted files.
In a world of digital rationality, I’m glad teenage engineering are here to design the absurd and analog. It doesn’t make rational sense - and I think that’s the point
I think it's cool that they make stuff like this. It's refreshing to see something engineered for the sake of being beautiful and cool, instead of worrying about BOM cost and margin.
The Gakken toy record cutter was only 8000 yen when it was released[0].
My spouse bought one on a whim. The quality is ... quite bad. It's a tool for learning about how this works though! So it was a fun little activity. But it really is "just" what it is.
Maybe Teenage Engineering's toy that looks like is exactly the same tech is better. I have my doubts.
It appears they’ll just rebrand a few record cutters and call it a product. TE always comes off as really low quality for the types of prices they charge.
The MPC Sample is 400$ and looks well built, the KO2 is 300$ and has faders falling off.
Roland has a few samplers in the same price range as well.
Not even a price listed. I don't understand the market for this - fancy musical instruments for creativity, sure, there's a market, but who wants to own cutting vinyl? How many records would you need to make for this to be more economical than paying a dedicated shop? How many would you need to do to "achieve higher quality"? How consistent are your results?
This isn't that but their "record factory" toy[0]... I'm like 90% sure is the same thing as something Gakken released in Japan for half the price as a little fun toy[1]
Even in the age of the internet there's a huge business in people basically taking a "normal" thing from another market and then rebadging it to release as an elevated thing.
Studio neat has a $231 tiny box cutter[2]. OLFA (A "professional" box cutter maker) sells a 2 pack of tiny box cutters that probably are 5x more ergonomic on account of being made to be used instead of to look nice on a website, for $10. [3]
The best version of a thing is likely whatever people who do it all day use. But you can totally make a market for consumers who want "fashionable" things but who don't really get the space.
Studio Neat is a big offender on this honestly... basically all of their stuff have "better" things at least at half the cost just available in random stationary stores. I'm all for wasting money on pens, but at least waste them on good pens!
The best box cutter is the Moby Safety Knife. I used it when I was working in a supermarket 20 years ago, and I haven't found anything even remotely comparable.
The short blade on top is perfect for breaking the tape to open the box without damaging the contents. Then the mouth can be used for quickly breaking down boxes or cutting shrink wrap. You are just cutting tape, so the blade never wears out.
I cringe every time I see someone using a Stanley knife in a supermarket.
I learned about the Pacific Handy Cutter from my local grocer. It's cheap and excellent. It has a dull edge for 95% of tape cutting needs, and a safety guide for when you need to use the blade. Admittedly, it's not useful for slicing up / cutting down boxes.
This model is right handed, but they make a lefty too.
That used to be $95 at launch, which still is very expensive of course, but slightly more palatable. I wonder if the current price is due to tariffs perhaps?
That fancy box cutter looks high utility; what don't you like about it besides the price? The retraction seems designed for frequently opening boxes, but not constantly. (I open few boxes and have a bog standard box cutter; I haven't used Studio Neat's or OLFA.)
If you are frequently opening boxes, that spring-loaded mechanism is going to cause repetitive stress injuries. No competent workplace health and safety employee would approve it.
Also, if you are using a utility knife frequently, you likely have a depth you want to keep it. Say I’m installing carpeting. I want to set the razor at a depth for the shag of carpet I’m working on today and have my blade at that depth until I’m done. With a spring load, the only depth that can easily be set is fully out where I’m pushing it all the way. Any intermediate depths will result in me shaking back and forth trying to hold a constant intermediate pressure.
This is a utility knife for someone rich who uses it for the day’s amazons packages because they think using the blade from their scissors is beneath them.
Maybe frequently was the wrong word; I would think spring-loaded would be designed for a lot of cycling between quick cuts and some other tasks, and you didn't want to leave the blade open.
Fixed blade would be best if you were constantly opening boxes and/or you could set your knife down open. And yes, for doing tasks where you are doing longer or more strenuous cutting (carpet is a great example.)
They money is fun to grouse about, but I thought the complaint about the low utility was the interesting bit.
The OLFA small box cutter is more ergonomic, does the job, and costs 100x less so you could buy a 10 pack of em and put them everywhere you want one.
Other people have linked serious box cutters for "I need to use a box cutter on 100 boxes" cases, and OLFA's small box cutter will work well for a bunch of other stuff (OLFA also has like 20 other form factors all at reasonable prices).
The other nice feature is using standard utility blades.
I have several Stanley type box cutters and blade retraction is an infuriating experience on each one because it gets stuck, the lock button gets stuck, it doesn't slide properly, often doesn't click into place, etc. I can definitely see the appeal of an object that is actually designed to work properly.
I'm confused because over the past 20 years I've owned four Stanleys[1] and used many more and never had those problems. Are you using the absolute cheapest ones they make? Because even the ones you get at Home Depot these days have metal innards that hold up over time.
One of mine got left outside in the garden for an entire winter. One side of the enclosure is sun bleached and I had to replace the blade, but otherwise it still gets used every week and works fine.
For what it’s worth, a non-locking blade is a plus for some people. I wouldn’t really want to leave a locking box cutter around, I’m too forgetful, but one that stows itself away automatically I’d feel a bit safer about. Still a silly price, though.
Teenage Engineering seems to run partly on hype and halo effect. It makes cool things you can’t afford, and you buy something cheaper. Selling a vinyl cutting machine keeps them in the news, which keeps them in your mind, and then you think about how you always wanted an OP-1 but oh maybe you could buy the EP-133 instead.
I’m sure there’s a price at which the vinyl cutter is profitable.
It's also possible that TE are full of people who are passionate about design and sound and want to work on and release interesting products in that space. Not everything is a psyop
That took my comment to a much darker place than I anticipated—I think basic marketing is ok, and even if you’re passionate about design, you still should be thinking about the business’s bottom line.
There is one company that sells similar lathe cutters in Europe. To aquire it you need to go on a multi day training in a remote Swiss forest. Then it’s around 10.000 EUR in equipment, granted you supply your own record player (sl1200 ~700EUR). But yeah cutting high quality stereo records is an art. No matter the money you throw at it, it will involve a lot of maintenance, skill, experience, spare parts, mastering skills, consumables, and time (these cut in real time). Indeed, who wants to do that? I welcome any effort in this niche though!
Consistency is super hard to achieve if you are not cutting daily in a (climate) controlled environment, even then, you will burn out the cutting head transducers, your cutting heads will dull (super fast). Operational costs are pretty high. Wonder how much they will charge for this lathe. I guess 40-80k USD?
I have a real “I was born yesterday” feeling having realized that “Teenage Engineering” has nothing to do with making audio tech accessible to young newcomers.
There’s certainly novelty to this, I’d love one if the price were reasonable. Direct capture, almost like a polaroid for vinyl records, no need to “develop” it.
I imagine artists could sell a super-limited (i.e. 1 copy) live recording of a show the second it ends for a premium, especially if they kept the machine on stage and personally packaged and signed it.
There used to be places where you could make your own one-of-a-kind record: pretty much direct microphone to vinyl¹ which I’m guessing this essentially is. But that said, I kind of feel like most of Teenage Engineering is more stunt than practical.
⸻
1. A booth for making records like this plays a role in the plot of Graham Greene’s Brighton Rock. Elvis Presley’s very first recordings were a similar thing, the two sides recorded in a booth to make a singular record to give his mother as a present in 1953.
Producing a lathe cut is the first (physical) step of many of pressing vinyl.
This isn’t targeting consumers, or even record stores, but record pressing plants.
This is kind of a big deal because this sort of fundamental equipment hasn’t been available new for decades. The vast majority of plants/mastering facilities are using old Scully lathes from the ‘50s and ‘60s. Those are getting ever older and harder to source parts for, and with the vinyl boom the number of pressing plants is actually going up.
Might I introduce you to the concept of dub plates? I absolutely love playing vinyl as a dj, and being able to cut my own would be worth it to me. Some people are just silly about their hobbies even without going into lalaland like an audiophile. Growing up, my dad had an 8-track recorder and a box of blank cassettes. I would record my music to them as the car I drove still had an 8-track player. It's goofy. It's fun. It's not logical per se, but it's also not hurting you. So leave me to my idiosyncrasies and go back to your Spotify feed and obey and consume as you do
Market: music industry veterans that won the race and have boutique record labels for small runs of obscure or promotional or small bands. Have five records printed for the merch table and the next show. Once you have the machine hopefully the marginal cost of a record would make sense for extremely small runs.
Where a band with no money might struggle to afford a $1000 minimum run somewhere else, they might be able to make beer money at a show with records made on one of these. Probably not "economical" in the machine may never pay for itself, but somebody rich buying one as a mechanism to promote musicians on a small scale probably makes sense to them.
Back when I DJ'd techno in the 90s I would have killed for this for what it could bring creatively to a set. Just the ability to cut my own tracks onto white labels and put custom loops etc on vinyl would have really changed things entirely without having to front a whole bunch of cash (which I def did not have) to get a batch of records pressed which probably nobody else would order or play.
But now mixing is done digitally and playing with vinyl is a mostly lost art and it's trivial to put your own material together into audio files and mix it.
I've heard tales of Ritchie Hawtin playing multiple turntables (6-8 depending on who's telling) where he'd have tracks separated as stems into dub plates and do live remixes by swapping out the plates. The things people did before Ableton!
I saw him do 3... maybe 4? tables? But mostly 2 or 3 decks plus a 909.
Around here in Toronto area we had a local (Jeff Milligan / "Algorithm") who was famous for absolutely precise beatmatching, and often 4 deck mixing. Very minimal wonky/bleepy techno.
Most 3D prints are vinyls already! the surface encodes some patterns of the motor movements and medium curing process. Shame it wouldn’t sound very good and there’s no machine to play them.
I looked and went, "WTF is that? Looks like a record cutting machine"
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WTAF
I'm a total TE fanboi, I have the OP1F and OP-XY, they're everything I ever wanted and my MPC and Digitakt haven't be touched in months. And the Digitone Keys is unplugged propped against the bookshelf. It's extraordinary how addictive these two little synths are for making things happen.
The APC-2, however, is a fascinating outcome of what happens when you have a bunch of creative people who like - and can - do things that are new to them and make them new to others. It's no wonder they keep getting asked to do cool stuff like Panic's Playdate, Baidu's Raven, Nothing Smartphones and Headphones.
TE have retained this incredible playful vibe that has long drained from Sony and Apple.
I've heard every lazy comment about hipsters and rich kids who are supposedly their target audience, and the cost of the products, as if the visible ingredients are all that accounting measure. Swiss watches cost orders of magnitude more than TE's amazing inventions, and their only purpose seems to be to remind the wearer how amazing they are when they look at it.
"God, I'm good," thought the Rolex wearer as he glanced at his wrist.
Hipsters will buy anything that looks cool. But that doesn’t mean anything that looks cool was made for them.
> I've heard every lazy comment about hipsters and rich kids who are supposedly their target audience, and the cost of the products, as if the visible ingredients are all that accounting measure. Swiss watches cost orders of magnitude more than TE's amazing inventions, and their only purpose seems to be to remind the wearer how amazing they are when they look at it.
Nobody pretends that high-end watches are anything besides objets d'art and even then not every watch is a Rolex synonymous with conspicuous consumption. TE, on the other hand, has legions of fans that buy this stuff without knowing the first thing about music production just because they think it's cool and want to try it out. Nobody who buys a $700 Tissot thinks it tells better time than a $17 Casio.
I have no problem with any of this. The world needs more aspiring creatives and it's none of my business how these consumers choose to spend their money. The fact that you find it appropriate to unilaterally shit on people who have nice watches while being in possession of a $2000 groovebox is, however, as the kids say, "a choice."
> But that doesn’t mean anything that looks cool was made for them.
How anyone tells themselves this while buying Teenage Engineering gear is beyond me. The closest TE came to an "amazing invention" was the OP-Z, and that flopped like a fish on land. The whole business is a marketing-saturated DAWless hipster fantasy, hook line and sinker.
I was there when my properly talented musician friends bought the original OP-1, and I was also there when they sold it to afford a better MIDI controller. It's a Fischer-Price 4-track recorder, there's a very good reason you don't see your favorite musicians dailying it.
Side 4 has a double groove, which would give you either The Great Escape + Made again (a sort of a happy ending) or The Great Escape + 20 minutes of water sounds (which can be interpreted as the sad ending).
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(Marillion_album)#Vinyl_... (I also have a copy and can confirm indeed it works like that).
https://www.discogs.com/master/19554-De-La-Soul-Me-Myself-An...
You could do it with more than two grooves, just to having them at 360/n degrees apart. You’ll just have to make the groove spacing wider as the number of tracks go off. Of course that comes at the cost of playback tine.
Their hours are "2:30 PM to 12 Midnight", I sort of believe... 7 days a week?
Rich will actually answer the phone, and guide you. I've done it a few times (it's an incredibly cool gift). A single record is $12. Extremely worth experiencing it.
https://drdub.com/en/faq/
I've done it twice and had a great experience, although in the 10X pricing range compared to recordcut.com.
I've used https://www.online-druck.biz/lp-cover.html for the sleeve, but I don't know if they ship internationally.
FWIW, You can get 100 records + jackets printed professionally for ~$10 a pop.
Gakken toy record cutter is low quality, but costs $160.
I wonder what this would cost. Surely it's impractical for personal use, as marketed.
My spouse bought one on a whim. The quality is ... quite bad. It's a tool for learning about how this works though! So it was a fun little activity. But it really is "just" what it is.
Maybe Teenage Engineering's toy that looks like is exactly the same tech is better. I have my doubts.
[0]: https://hon.gakken.jp/book/1575072200
It appears they’ll just rebrand a few record cutters and call it a product. TE always comes off as really low quality for the types of prices they charge.
The MPC Sample is 400$ and looks well built, the KO2 is 300$ and has faders falling off.
Roland has a few samplers in the same price range as well.
Even in the age of the internet there's a huge business in people basically taking a "normal" thing from another market and then rebadging it to release as an elevated thing.
Studio neat has a $231 tiny box cutter[2]. OLFA (A "professional" box cutter maker) sells a 2 pack of tiny box cutters that probably are 5x more ergonomic on account of being made to be used instead of to look nice on a website, for $10. [3]
The best version of a thing is likely whatever people who do it all day use. But you can totally make a market for consumers who want "fashionable" things but who don't really get the space.
Studio Neat is a big offender on this honestly... basically all of their stuff have "better" things at least at half the cost just available in random stationary stores. I'm all for wasting money on pens, but at least waste them on good pens!
[0]: https://teenage.engineering/products/po-80
[1]: https://hon.gakken.jp/book/1575072200
[2]: https://www.studioneat.com/products/keen
[3]: https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/OLFA-Compact-Knife-Pieces-95B2...
The short blade on top is perfect for breaking the tape to open the box without damaging the contents. Then the mouth can be used for quickly breaking down boxes or cutting shrink wrap. You are just cutting tape, so the blade never wears out.
I cringe every time I see someone using a Stanley knife in a supermarket.
https://www.safeknife.com/
This model is right handed, but they make a lefty too.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HXLNCMM
If you are frequently opening boxes, that spring-loaded mechanism is going to cause repetitive stress injuries. No competent workplace health and safety employee would approve it.
Also, if you are using a utility knife frequently, you likely have a depth you want to keep it. Say I’m installing carpeting. I want to set the razor at a depth for the shag of carpet I’m working on today and have my blade at that depth until I’m done. With a spring load, the only depth that can easily be set is fully out where I’m pushing it all the way. Any intermediate depths will result in me shaking back and forth trying to hold a constant intermediate pressure.
This is a utility knife for someone rich who uses it for the day’s amazons packages because they think using the blade from their scissors is beneath them.
Fixed blade would be best if you were constantly opening boxes and/or you could set your knife down open. And yes, for doing tasks where you are doing longer or more strenuous cutting (carpet is a great example.)
They money is fun to grouse about, but I thought the complaint about the low utility was the interesting bit.
Other people have linked serious box cutters for "I need to use a box cutter on 100 boxes" cases, and OLFA's small box cutter will work well for a bunch of other stuff (OLFA also has like 20 other form factors all at reasonable prices).
I have several Stanley type box cutters and blade retraction is an infuriating experience on each one because it gets stuck, the lock button gets stuck, it doesn't slide properly, often doesn't click into place, etc. I can definitely see the appeal of an object that is actually designed to work properly.
One of mine got left outside in the garden for an entire winter. One side of the enclosure is sun bleached and I had to replace the blade, but otherwise it still gets used every week and works fine.
[1] This one. None of them have ever failed, I just keep 3 of them in different locations and physically lost (maybe loaned out) one a few years ago. https://www.stanleytools.com/product/10-179/hi-visibility-re...
I’m sure there’s a price at which the vinyl cutter is profitable.
But, like, https://teenage.engineering/store/field-desk
Or maybe the TP-7 is a better example.
They are obviously following the playbook from brands like Supreme. At least in part.
https://www.richard-lampert.de/en/furniture/eiermann-1/
I imagine artists could sell a super-limited (i.e. 1 copy) live recording of a show the second it ends for a premium, especially if they kept the machine on stage and personally packaged and signed it.
No one is buying this for economy’s sake.
⸻
1. A booth for making records like this plays a role in the plot of Graham Greene’s Brighton Rock. Elvis Presley’s very first recordings were a similar thing, the two sides recorded in a booth to make a singular record to give his mother as a present in 1953.
Well, Sega gamers for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c744iD0_fWU
This isn’t targeting consumers, or even record stores, but record pressing plants.
This is kind of a big deal because this sort of fundamental equipment hasn’t been available new for decades. The vast majority of plants/mastering facilities are using old Scully lathes from the ‘50s and ‘60s. Those are getting ever older and harder to source parts for, and with the vinyl boom the number of pressing plants is actually going up.
Where a band with no money might struggle to afford a $1000 minimum run somewhere else, they might be able to make beer money at a show with records made on one of these. Probably not "economical" in the machine may never pay for itself, but somebody rich buying one as a mechanism to promote musicians on a small scale probably makes sense to them.
But now mixing is done digitally and playing with vinyl is a mostly lost art and it's trivial to put your own material together into audio files and mix it.
Around here in Toronto area we had a local (Jeff Milligan / "Algorithm") who was famous for absolutely precise beatmatching, and often 4 deck mixing. Very minimal wonky/bleepy techno.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2083209238436343
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAthnDk7ZcA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6EJOzGj4xM
This stuff is like expensive watches. If there was no one to show it off to there would be no one who would buy it.
I would buy a machine that makes new laserdiscs if it existed, and not because of any economical argument.
... aluminized paper for electric arc printers
... wax film thermal print head ribbon
... a re-inker for cloth typewriter ribbon (at least this one is straightforward to design and build myself some day)
... extra wide cloth matrix printer ribbon with 4 colors
... 1.9mm magnetic tape for exatron wafers
A record cutter has way more potential audience than any of those. They will sell every one they can even manage to make.
I've been worried this place has gotten eternal september'd full of redditors, AI bots, and low-IQ emotional mainstream political rants.
But then you swoop in here and remind me that it's still 2007 in Hackernews land: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
Never change.
Damn I would buy this for 50 bucks.
I actually have a project that requires a bunch of custom vinyl, but I am guessing this is not economical.
https://www.outofrage.net/post/review-henge-journey-to-voltu...
I love this company and wish there was more like them.
I wonder if they chose it because of the APC40, which is a delightful set of MIDI pads.
The audio wasn't the best, but hey, you could make your own dubplates, and it did so in stereo!
Scrolled down
WTAF
I'm a total TE fanboi, I have the OP1F and OP-XY, they're everything I ever wanted and my MPC and Digitakt haven't be touched in months. And the Digitone Keys is unplugged propped against the bookshelf. It's extraordinary how addictive these two little synths are for making things happen.
The APC-2, however, is a fascinating outcome of what happens when you have a bunch of creative people who like - and can - do things that are new to them and make them new to others. It's no wonder they keep getting asked to do cool stuff like Panic's Playdate, Baidu's Raven, Nothing Smartphones and Headphones.
TE have retained this incredible playful vibe that has long drained from Sony and Apple.
I've heard every lazy comment about hipsters and rich kids who are supposedly their target audience, and the cost of the products, as if the visible ingredients are all that accounting measure. Swiss watches cost orders of magnitude more than TE's amazing inventions, and their only purpose seems to be to remind the wearer how amazing they are when they look at it.
"God, I'm good," thought the Rolex wearer as he glanced at his wrist.
Hipsters will buy anything that looks cool. But that doesn’t mean anything that looks cool was made for them.
Nobody pretends that high-end watches are anything besides objets d'art and even then not every watch is a Rolex synonymous with conspicuous consumption. TE, on the other hand, has legions of fans that buy this stuff without knowing the first thing about music production just because they think it's cool and want to try it out. Nobody who buys a $700 Tissot thinks it tells better time than a $17 Casio.
I have no problem with any of this. The world needs more aspiring creatives and it's none of my business how these consumers choose to spend their money. The fact that you find it appropriate to unilaterally shit on people who have nice watches while being in possession of a $2000 groovebox is, however, as the kids say, "a choice."
If you re-read your own comment, do you experience cringe? If the answer is no, that's worrying and worth looking into.
> TE's amazing inventions
> But that doesn’t mean anything that looks cool was made for them.
How anyone tells themselves this while buying Teenage Engineering gear is beyond me. The closest TE came to an "amazing invention" was the OP-Z, and that flopped like a fish on land. The whole business is a marketing-saturated DAWless hipster fantasy, hook line and sinker.
I was there when my properly talented musician friends bought the original OP-1, and I was also there when they sold it to afford a better MIDI controller. It's a Fischer-Price 4-track recorder, there's a very good reason you don't see your favorite musicians dailying it.