GPT-5.6

(openai.com)

493 points | by logickkk1 1 hour ago

78 comments

  • minimaxir 1 hour ago
    The developer's guide (https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/guides/latest-model) has some interesting semantic tips for using the model:

    > Intent understanding: GPT-5.6 can better infer the user’s underlying goal and intended level of work without you specifying every step. Continue to state important constraints, approval boundaries, and success criteria explicitly.

    > Original image detail: GPT-5.6 preserves the original dimensions of images sent with original or auto detail instead of resizing them to a patch budget or pixel-dimension limit.

    > Use shorter prompts: In internal evaluations, replacing long, explicit system prompts with minimal prompts improved scores by roughly 10–15%, while reducing total tokens by 41–66% and cost by 33–67%.

    > Avoid generic brevity instructions: GPT-5.6 is more sensitive than GPT-5.5 to instructions such as “Be concise,” “Keep it short,” or “Use minimal text.”

    > Control warmth: GPT-5.6 does not become meaningfully better when prompted to be broadly friendlier or more empathetic.

    • ravenstine 1 hour ago
      > Avoid generic brevity instructions

      That part is confusing because it's not like they provide an example of how default GPT-5.6 output compares with GPT-5.5 both with default output and prompted for brevity. Whenever I use such prompts, it's usually because I want the model to give me the gist in a few sentences. I'd be stunned if GPT-5.6 was that concise by default. I would think that could "break" a lot of things for developers who didn't know to make prompt changes after upgrading to 5.6. What if you were expecting GPT to be as wordy as it usually is? Then suddenly your output is not wordy enough?

      Smells like OpenAI trying its best to stave off financial armageddon for another few months. Then again, I'm not sure why they chose to waste so much output computation on verbal diarrhea all this time up to now.

      • anticorporate 1 hour ago
        It seems like the way brevity instructions have changed is mis-aligned with how most people would expect to use them or are currently using them.

        Here's the example they give:

        > Instead of asking for the shortest possible answer, replace brevity instructions with prioritization:

        > Lead with the conclusion. Include the evidence needed to support it, any material caveat, and the next action. Omit secondary detail and repetition.

        > Keep all required facts, decisions, caveats, and next steps. Trim introductions, repetition, generic reassurance, and optional background first.

        Generally speaking, when I ask for a short answer, I want a short answer because I'm not really willing to read through a bunch of bullshit to get to a summary. Putting the onus back on me to assume what the model will return and write a longer prompt detailing exactly what information I want completely misses the point of why I'm asking for a short answer in the first place.

        • derefr 13 minutes ago
          > Lead with conclusion.

          I would presume (perhaps falsely?) that an instruction like this would lead to the model presenting a conclusion not supported by the evidence, and potentially backtracking as they then try to justify said conclusion.

          Yes, if deliberation happens, the model should figure out what it wants to say during that phase; but if you're using auto mode, the model is not going to be doing any deliberating half the time. In those cases, the output blathering is the model's only chance for deliberation. It "thinks as it talks", per se.

          Given that, I would advise a different approach: let it blather, but then get it to write you a conclusion at the end that the model can guarantee will obviate the need to read any of the blathering.

          I.e. advise the model to add an "executive summary" to the end of any non-trivial-in-length response. With some wording to carefully navigate the model between "the summary is itself too long" vs "the summary acts more like clickbait, leaving out necessary detail such that it requires actually reading the blather."

          Not sure exactly what that wording would look like. I imagine something like "write like a senior CIA intelligence analyst summarizing ground-level reports into a daily digest for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Take up as little of their time as possible, but ensure that any detail critical to decision-making is retained." (But that phrasing might only be useful if the model is delivering a certain type of response, and actively counter-productive otherwise. This kind of thing is delicate.)

        • Romario77 11 minutes ago
          I think instead of "be concise" you could tell it how long the answer should be. I.e. give the answer in one paragraph. Or in 10 lines max.

          At least before it would listen to instructions like this.

        • spathi_fwiffo 1 hour ago
          Replace 2 word instruction ('be concise') with a 38 word instruction.

          Human can no longer be concise when asking for a few sentences instead of 20 paragraphs of BS they don't want to read when all they want is a summary to verify the general direction of the prompt-work before digging into the details.

          such progress!

          • osigurdson 53 minutes ago
            I don't know how intentional it is / was, but LLMs in general just love to hear themselves talk!
            • arjie 46 minutes ago
              They do, and I want to encourage them to do so because they think through talking. What I don’t want to do is spend time reading all that.

              We will probably just get reader-side affordances for this like auto-folded justification and introduction sections and so on.

              Doubtless some chat interface will add this the way they’ve added reasoning folding.

              • bcrosby95 35 minutes ago
                Thinking models think through talking, don't reveal that talking, then answer by again thinking through talking. It's kinda funny in a way.
            • jimbokun 30 minutes ago
              Is it just a coincidence that the companies creating them charge by the token?
              • pizzafeelsright 21 minutes ago
                The aligned incentive appears to be realigning in favor of the corporation.

                Pray they do not realign them further.

                There are times I require single word answers. I will use whatever model responds as I desire and at this point those models are just a few.

                • minimaxir 15 minutes ago
                  The cost-per-task benchmarks align incentives toward more efficient output and those are the ones gaining steam.
      • ignoramous 8 minutes ago
        [flagged]
    • artisin 23 minutes ago
      Control warmth[1]

      > GPT-5.6 does not become meaningfully better when prompted to be broadly friendlier or more empathetic. Instead of generic instructions such as “Be friendly and warm,” use concrete guidance: > Be direct and tactful. Acknowledge friction specifically when relevant. Avoid canned reassurance and unnecessary sign-offs.

      Soo basically, my new 5.6 custom instructions: Be Jeeves and eliminate all friction from my life through immense processing power. Acknowledge friction specifically when relevant. Avoid canned reassurance and unnecessary sign-offs.

      [1] https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/guides/latest-model#c...

    • epihelix 43 minutes ago
      > Use shorter prompts: In internal evaluations, replacing long, explicit system prompts with minimal prompts improved scores by roughly 10–15%, while reducing total tokens by 41–66% and cost by 33–67%.

      When has this ever not been the case? I don't think this is a GPT 5.6 specialty!

      • daemonologist 9 minutes ago
        There was a fad a while back of building insanely long prompts - tens of thousands of tokens - including having models write prompts for themselves. I always thought it was counterproductive, especially if you're going to use the prompt more than a couple of times. (That said, the e.g. Claude Code system prompt is insanely long, so if you genuinely have a lot of information to provide maybe it's beneficial. Like, shorter is better, but you don't want to be under-specified.)
      • CuriouslyC 6 minutes ago
        For Gemini 2.5 and ~GPT5.0-5.1, longer prompts with lots of explicit instructions and examples produced better conformance. Seems like heavily second guessing the models started to get counter productive around the end of last year.
      • adam_arthur 28 minutes ago
        Information density of the prompt is the most important factor in my experience.

        And interestingly, LLMs seem particularly bad at writing prompts for other LLMs for this reason (you can guide them to be more dense, just speaking by default).

        Conciseness is usually a byproduct of information density though.

    • elAhmo 45 minutes ago
      > Use shorter prompts: In internal evaluations, replacing long, explicit system prompts with minimal prompts improved scores by roughly 10–15%, while reducing total tokens by 41–66% and cost by 33–67%.

      A shorter prompt results in half as much tokens spend? I find this very hard to believe.

      • bulder 30 minutes ago
        If it's anywhere close to the same universe as smaller models in its behavior, a lot of time in "thinking" mode is spent on reiterating on any constraints given in a prompt. So the more constraints you give it, the more tokens it will spend going "Hold on, the prompt said I have to dot my i's and cross my t's. Let me go through my work to check that all the i's are dotted."
      • zeven7 43 minutes ago
        Maybe Codex has the same problem I sometimes have focusing while reading and has to reread the same sentence over and over again.
    • postalcoder 1 hour ago
      > Avoid generic brevity instructions: GPT-5.6 is more sensitive than GPT-5.5 to instructions such as “Be concise,” “Keep it short,” or “Use minimal text.”

      RIP Caveman skill. Six month good. Now skill dead.

      • delichon 1 hour ago
        A Yoda skill, is there?
    • mlmonkey 50 minutes ago
      > Avoid generic brevity instructions: GPT-5.6 is more sensitive than GPT-5.5 to instructions such as “Be concise,” “Keep it short,” or “Use minimal text.”

      What about my favorite, "no yapping"?

    • firemelt 20 minutes ago
      do we have similar guidance or page from anthropic for claude?
  • meetpateltech 1 hour ago
    GPT-5.6 Sol sets a new SOTA on ARC-AGI-3: 7.8%

    Sol is the first verified frontier model to ever beat an ARC-AGI-3 game

    https://arcprize.org/results/openai-gpt-5-6

    • 10xDev 44 minutes ago
      Seeing the dramatic differences in scores just going from high to xhigh is just another demonstration of the bitter lesson: Just keep scaling search and learning. We are probably going to need a lot more GPUs.
      • altcognito 35 minutes ago
        While I think this is true, remember as we get more efficient we just decide to scale even bigger. So more GPUs, and more efficient.

        I agree with the sibling comment, effiency is probably the more important component at this point. We are hitting not just a practical engineering roadblock for scaling with current technology, I think we have definitely hit a financial and logistical roadblock for up scaling with the number of GPUs (on an immediate basis)

      • vatsachak 39 minutes ago
        I mean, theoretically you can solve every finitary problem with a brute force solution...

        Richard Sutton specifically states that the search has to be smart. We know that the brain uses recurrent connections and is shallow. I think a lot more money has to go into architecture. Feed Forward transformers can only scale so far

      • emp17344 5 minutes ago
        This isn’t really how it works anymore. Agents rely heavily on tool use and the agentic harness to perform tasks. Pre-training is no longer very effective.
      • Razengan 24 minutes ago
        > We are probably going to need a lot more GPUs.

        Or a breakthrough in algorithms etc.

        The human brain, heck all bio brains, are proof that you don't need a lot of power or size for intelligence.

        • aeyes 5 minutes ago
          For intelligence, I expect the next breakthrough to be colocation of memory and compute in the same chip. And we'll need much more of this memory, probably a few petabytes.
        • altcognito 12 minutes ago
          20 watts for inference AND training!
    • simianwords 49 minutes ago
      Very interesting. My prediction is that Mythos would outperform Sol.

      Also what does this tell about Yann LeCuns whole world model theory? Bro has been going on and on about it. He has made multiple wrong predictions on the trajectory of LLMs.

      At some point his claim should be fully falsified no?

      • osti 46 minutes ago
        Mythos probably wouldn't, otherwise they'd have included it in their release. Next version of Mythos probably will though.

        And yeah.. Reality has not been kind to LeCun.

        • vatsachak 38 minutes ago
          Are you joking? They spend billions of dollars training LLMs to get a 7.8% on arc agi 3 whereas DINO models are near sota in image classification, provide meaningful embeddings to the point where image segmentation is just PCA. The spend on DINO cannot be more than five million (correct me if I'm wrong)

          JEPA is just getting started

          • Tenoke 17 minutes ago
            His main anti-LLM predictions have been consistently either wrong or misleading.

            There's many ways to skin a cat so you can probably do something with a JEPA approach as well, but I doubt he actually catches up to having agents on the level of where Anthropic/OpenAI will be at any point.

          • redactsureAI 25 minutes ago
            DINO is a transformer model?
          • esafak 27 minutes ago
            ASI is going to be here by the time Lecun gets started.
  • Syntaf 1 hour ago
    Ok long time Claude Code user here; lately I've started to realize there's other great models out there I should be trying, but I'm hesitant to leave Claude Code behind for something new.

    What's the consensus today on codex vs claude code, does it really matter anymore?

    • nilkn 1 hour ago
      Codex has arguably been better than Claude Code for months now, but it's flown under the radar because it just didn't capture the same viral marketing effect and OpenAI in general has had more optics / PR issues than Anthropic amongst the online developer crowd. I use the word "better" not in the sense that the underlying GPT models are fundamentally smarter or more intelligent, but rather that as a product Codex is just simpler, cheaper, and abundantly reliable and low-drama.
      • hk__2 1 hour ago
        I’d argue the opposite. I’ve switched back and forth from one to the other and Opus/Fable has been constantly better than any GPT in my daily work. It’s a bit slower but it does the things right, with as little code as possible, some comments where needed. Codex is faster but you always have to correct it because it got something wrong; it writes tons of code ("let me add a small helper") with obvious comments.
        • ljm 51 minutes ago
          Purely anecdotally the one persistent issue I have with LLMs writing code is that they are absolutely paranoid and add a load of indirection and defensive crap and even if you prompt to avoid that it will often require manual steering to remove the cruft.
        • nilkn 59 minutes ago
          I'm not sure how meaningful this is. Fable only just recently become more broadly available, and GPT-5.6 is launching broadly today.
        • cevn 44 minutes ago
          Sounds like you are talking past each other. GP is saying the harness of codex is higher quality, which I can believe, even if the models are not as good as Opus/Fable.
        • dbbk 26 minutes ago
          I really love the Opus/Fable models but I'm honestly sick to death of the buggy product. The CLI always has some weird issue. Right now it doesn't even output messages before tool calls, it just swallows them and they disappear.

          I don't like OpenAI as a company, but they appear to have QA, and that is probably enough to get me to switch.

          • walthamstow 23 minutes ago
            There was an issue on Claude Code the other day where it would only wait 60 seconds when it had asked a set of questions, then if it didn't get a response from the user it would just continue however it thought was best. Completely unusable. It took them nearly 48 hours to merge a fix.
        • behnamoh 9 minutes ago
          > Codex is faster but you always have to correct it because it got something wrong

          this has been my experience with Codex as well, and I have to fix its mistakes every single time. But recently, I literally threw away three hours of work because it kept adding hundreds of lines to my code base. When I restarted the entire work using Fable and Opus, it was like night and day.

      • Certhas 25 minutes ago
        That's a strange statement... It's been true for a while now that OpenAI has had much more generous limits than Anthropic on their subscription plans. And with the Fable ban/guardrails disaster, there has been a lot of frustration from people in these comment sections. And Anthropic fucked up Claude Code pretty badly for a couple of weeks during the 4.6/4.7/4.8 transition, which again was widely publicized. And they got a lot of flack over not allowing other harnesses anymore. And ChatGPT got some pretty viral wins on model intelligence when they cracked the high profile Erdos problem.

        If anything the online optics have been bad for Anthropic for the last half year. OpenAI doesn't have optics issues, from my point of view they simply have the issue that they are the least trustworthy player at the frontier. The way they pivoted from their original mission is truly breathtaking, especially coming in gloatingly to take the government contract when Anthropic got kicked out for insisting the government does not use their systems for mass surveillance or autonomous weapons systems. You understand what that means, right? OpenAI models are now actively used/developed for mass surveilance and/or autonomous weapons systems.

        I know there are plenty here who seem to value their own ability to use these models cheaply above all other considerations. Then OpenAI is a great choice, and much less restrictive than Anthropic. But their problem is not on the optics. It's on the substance.

      • nolok 21 minutes ago
        I really want a good Claude Design competitor in Codex, it's hard to use the others after getting used to it and yet I find anthropic's model to have a much worse understanding of what looks good or not than OpenAI or Google models.
      • jrflo 50 minutes ago
        Agreed. GPT 5.5 will come up with more straightforward solutions with far fewer tokens than Claude. Also, the usage limits are much more generous for Codex than Claude Code for the same monthly plan.
        • mattmanser 46 minutes ago
          Last time I used Codex it would make loads of assumptions, often quite big ones, without asking.

          Did they fix that, as that for me was what actually made codex worse.

          • arcanemachiner 16 minutes ago
            I find that I have to tell GPT and Claude to keep asking me questions, or they will just fill in the gaps themselves (wrongly).
      • dboreham 47 minutes ago
        Nudged by this thread, I've decided to switch from Claude to Codex for a bit to see what happens. But...I immediately became lost in their marketing vortex of confusion on plans and pricing. Anyone care to tell me which plan I should be using? On the other side I use the $100 Claude Code plan. We actually have a "Business" ChatGPT subscription already, which seems to be $50/mo/seat. OpenAI's web site offers a set of individual subscriptions (for parity with CC presumably) which I suspect weren't available when we signed up for ChatGPT. I think that in turn happened due to some web site feature it didn't allow for free users (uploading PDFs, something like that). Perhaps I should switch from that business account to an individual subscription for Codex?
        • gruntled-worker 10 minutes ago
          Test-drive it with an individual Pro account (5x or 20x) for a month. Download the Codex CLI client from https://github.com/openai/codex and auth it in the browser via the URL it provides. Set the model to 5.6-Sol and effort to max.
    • postalcoder 1 hour ago
      There is so much less drama involved with the Codex world. You don't realize how oppressive CC is until you've escaped it. Outages, weird restrictions, degradation, accelerated usage, etc etc etc.
      • timcobb 1 hour ago
        Totally. My experience as well. After some time with codex you're like come on Claude can you just stfu! Haha. I now almost always instruct Claude with specific length requirements when I ask questions. Otherwise, it just blathers and blathers in the most annoying of ways. "Oppressive" is spot on in my opinion
      • Amir6 52 minutes ago
        Let alone getting banned out right with no reason, zero updates after weeks, and not even being able to download your chat history (despite the feature being available (I assume they vibe coded it and it does not work!). My story below;

        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48597861

      • jakswa 1 hour ago
        I'll agree and expand on "weird restrictions" -- I used to check the claude usage graphs multiple times a day to see where I'm at on my weekly budget. With gpt 5.5 I don't think I'm working differently but haven't felt the need to check anything because I think I've hit my limit... once? on some egregious edge case scenario iirc
      • Cider9986 37 minutes ago
        Even less drama with open models like GLM.
    • wwind123 1 hour ago
      I've been using Claude Code, Codex, Gemini (now Antigravity) at the same time for half year now, ever since I dipped my toe into agentic coding. I'd say in general Claude Code and Codex are equally powerful, Gemini is lagging behind.

      One thing I appreciate with Codex is, OpenAI nowadays sometimes just gives you quota resets you can bank, so when you use up weekly quota before the week ends, you could just reset the quota, to continue using Codex. I've been much less anxious about Codex quota because of this perk. I just used one reset in the bank yesterday, and still have 3 resets left. Whereas with Claude, when you've used 95% quota 3 days before the week ends, you'd be much more anxious.

      On the other hand, Claude Code's /remote-control mechanism is extremely helpful when I am running it in the cloud and wants to monitor it or control it on my phone. Codex currently doesn't support this kind of usage. Codex only allows you to use your phone to connect to a session on your desktop, not in the cloud.

      • EMM_386 21 minutes ago
        Yes - Anthropic badly needs this same "here's a reset, use it when you want".

        It's vastly better this way. Sure, it may impact the bottom line but it's a huge customer satisfaction win.

        When Anthropic randomly resets me and I've only used 2%, that's worthless. When OpenAI tells me I have 3 resets available to use whenever I want - it's wonderful.

      • WhitneyLand 59 minutes ago
        Codex is supported well on iPhone/iPad, it’s inside the ChatGPT app.

        It’s amazing how much work you can get done on your phone now, especially if you already have a design mapped out in your head.

        • ghostpepper 47 minutes ago
          I have used claude and codex extensively but only from their CLI app (heavily sandboxed using rootless podman, network filtering, etc), so I don't really know what I'm missing with the GUI apps.

          One killer feature that Claude has, and AFAIK Codex still lacks, is the ability to start a session in the terminal and then hand it off (actually just remotely control it), from the iOS app.

          Last time I tried Codex on iOS it required a ton of set up to link a github project etc. The way claude lets me remote into a session I've already started on my actual machine is much better IMHO.

          • akmarinov 27 minutes ago
            They’ve addressed that. Codex in the ChatGPT app on iOS is way better than Claude Code now.

            You sign in the Codex app on your Mac same on iOS and are able to completely control your sessions - fork, side chats, plugins - everything.

            It’s really great i often work through it. And you can connect any number of Codex instances on any number of macs and then manage them all through the iOS app.

            • wwind123 8 minutes ago
              Hmm, I don't have a desktop computer. I prefer my laptop be used for other purposes, and can sleep when not in use, instead of running a coding agent 24x7. That's why I prefer running coding agents in the cloud.
              • akmarinov 1 minute ago
                You can do that too. Start working locally, then just do /handoff to transfer your session to the cloud and then work through the Codex app on your phone.
      • _superposition_ 48 minutes ago
        I've been using codex app server. Works great.

        https://learn.chatgpt.com/docs/app-server

        • wwind123 11 minutes ago
          Hmm, thanks. Didn't know about this. But looks like a bunch of hassle to set it up?
          • _superposition_ 1 minute ago
            Finding the right docs/flags took longer than anything else. 15 mins from zero to productive on my phone.
    • yokoprime 0 minutes ago
      I prefer codex for most tasks, but stil use Claude if i need to make something "nice but generic", i.e. a html artefact or touch up of front end code.
    • pkulak 45 minutes ago
      I can't tell the difference between Fable and GPT 5.5. I tried Fable while it was in trial $20 mode, used up my whole quota, and it was great, but as soon as I went back to GPT 5.5, everything was the same.

      But what I love about Openai is that they still let you hook OTHER harnesses up to a subscription. My Pi setup has been built up for a few months now into exactly what I want and moving over to CC or even Codex is really annoying.

      Caveat: I vibe code in tiny little chunks. I see what I want to do, and exactly how I want it done, then prompt that, refine, what was output, then repeat. I bet Fable is better at building a whole app from a 2-sentence prompt; but that's just not important to me at all.

      • akmarinov 25 minutes ago
        Same here - gave 5.5 a web design to implement and it sucked. Gave the same to Fable and it still sucked.
    • aroman 1 hour ago
      Claude Code fan here... Codex is very good. Sometimes better. The killer feature is price.

      After 6+ months of exclusive Claude Code usage, I was begrudgingly forced to try Codex once Anthropic rejiggered their limits such that I kept maxing out my $200/mo plan in just a few days. These days I pay both $200/mo plans, and it's just about enough to get me through a week's work (small game studio - infinite code to write!)

    • InsideOutSanta 40 minutes ago
      > does it really matter anymore?

      They're different models with different philosophies behind them. This is anecdotal with a user group of 1, but in my experience:

      Claude has a stronger personality and is more creative. If you give it vague instructions, it's better at filling in the blanks with reasonable ideas.

      GPT-5.5 is better at following instructions. If you know exactly what you want, it will do it without going off the rails. It's also less likely to imply that you're dumb, but I don't really care about that. Some people do.

      • akmarinov 23 minutes ago
        I’ve found that Claude is very literal. When I talk to 5.5 it gets what i want it to do, when I talk to Opus 4.8 it does what I say literally and doesn’t get the intent behind it.
    • kristianc 1 hour ago
      Codex has been good for a long time, more expensive but very focused on efficiency. Working with it feels faster and more to the point than Opus models and I trust it more with long-running jobs. Also regular resets vs being at the whim of Anthropic drama all the time is hella nice.
      • anukin 1 hour ago
        Codex is cheaper on average no? I think the models are expensive but the token efficiency of the harness itself solves the problem.
        • kristianc 1 hour ago
          Yes that's what I meant, the per token cost is higher but as you say the efficiency levels it out / works slightly in Codex's favour.
      • timcobb 1 hour ago
        Anyone know what the deal is with the resets?
        • kristianc 1 hour ago
          They've discovered it's a good marketing strategy. Whenever there's an outage, or a new launch, there's often a reset with it, which helps keep people engaged with OAI / Tibo and reduces churn.

          They've also introduced banked resets, which are really clever. If you have a $200/month plan and three banked resets, you're not churning because you will overweight giving up those resets (loss aversion theory).

          • timcobb 1 hour ago
            I ran out of resets :( hehe I had 3 and used them all
    • ThunderBee 8 minutes ago
      IME it entirely depends on your work. I find myself using both daily for different things.

      Codex with GPT 5.5 is much better at general SWE tasks but Claude Code with Opus is far better at complex reasoning tasks like reading and summarizing research papers, replicating experiments, identifying research gaps and proposing interesting follow ups.

    • nvarsj 9 minutes ago
      The harness is so much better than cc which is a buggy mess. Gpt is also way faster than Claude. I’ve been using gpt for a while now and I know a lot of people that swapped away from Anthropic for multiple reasons. However - fable still seems to be the best coding agent, it’s just slow and the harness sucks. So I still use it in some rare cases like to review codex. I’m hoping 5.6 lets me drop it entirely.
    • CuriouslyC 1 hour ago
      It never really mattered (except when codex was very new). If anything, codex's remote session integration is better, so outside of some "ultracode" orchestration bells/whistles where Claude Code is ahead, I think Codex is a better tool.
      • mountainriver 1 hour ago
        Agree, I think there was just a blind study that showed no one could tell the difference even though the users were avid they could
    • linsomniac 14 minutes ago
      I'm also a long-time Claude Code user here, though the last 3 weeks I've been doing loops having claude use codex to review until they reach consensus; uses tons of tokens but the result is really good.

      I'm trying Codex as my primary the last day or so, because I'm at 98% use and reset in 3 days on Claude. I'm worried about a lot of our skills and CLAUDE.mds and the like getting lost unless I migrate them, but otherwise codex seems to be working great.

    • Daedren 1 hour ago
      Use a harness that doesn't lock you into a moat, like OpenCode.
      • magicalhippo 8 minutes ago
        You can use Codex with any endpoint compatible with OpenAI Response API[1], like llama.cpp.

        [1]: https://unsloth.ai/docs/basics/codex

      • akmarinov 21 minutes ago
        Codex is open source and lets you use any model https://learn.chatgpt.com/docs/config-file/config-advanced#o...
      • thebigspacefuck 1 hour ago
        FWIW Claude Code works with OpenRouter so you can use any model.
        • theturtletalks 1 hour ago
          CC system prompt is bloated, use Pi to test Codex instead
      • maxloh 34 minutes ago
        Codex CLI is open source too. I don't think there is a difference.
      • AntonyGarand 1 hour ago
        Can't use a claude code subscription in another harness though
        • I_am_tiberius 1 hour ago
          Don't use providers that don't allow it.
        • kristianc 1 hour ago
          You can however for now use wrappers which are not harnesses such as T3Code though. They were going to cut under the Programmatic API, but have at least temporarily walked it back.
        • greenavocado 1 hour ago
          You absolutely can; they are not banning anymore. The bigger problem is that subscription versions of the models are way crappier than when the "same" model is hit via API (Bedrock/Vertex)

          You can also make it not count against extra usage.

          OpenCode docs show it because Anthropic specifically ambushed them with a PR to remove support so simpletons can't use it easily.

          • AntonyGarand 1 hour ago
            The opencode docs[0] still say otherwise, do you have a source?

            [0] https://opencode.ai/docs/providers/#anthropic

          • ghostpepper 45 minutes ago
            I am curious about the claim that the subscription models are different. Has anyone benchmarked this?
            • retinaros 16 minutes ago
              maybe he meant about server-side features? otherwise its dumb. OAI and Anthropic are using azure/aws/gcp...
          • infberg 1 hour ago
            Do you have a source for that?
          • llm_nerd 1 hour ago
            They aren't banning it anymore, they just make it count as "extra usage". e.g. you're paying for every token in addition to your subscription.

            Further, the claim that the subscription "version" of the model is worse sounds like bullshit (and the sort of anecdotal nonsense that you see on sites like this). Do you have anything substantiating this?

    • alexhans 49 minutes ago
      > What's the consensus today on codex vs claude code, does it really matter anymore?

      Consensus is probably the wrong word for the popular opinions reflected in HN that you might get.

      I would recommend that you have 2 of each at all times when it comes to AI so you don't necessarily become overly locked to quirks of one thing. You'll soon realize that things move so fast that you just start internalizing common patterns instead of depending on one specific vendor.

      I recommend that you try pi and codex besides claude, to get your own feel for it.

    • vessenes 1 hour ago
      More literal, less fluid verbally, harder time understanding nuance, more correct code, fewer bugs. Less pretty UI. I switch back and forth but find I have less 'clean up' work with codex; more upfront communication though to properly specify. High hopes for 5.6!
    • osigurdson 50 minutes ago
      I use both. Not because I am cool, but because it is cost effective for personal projects with two $20 / month plans. It is also nice to be able to see what the state of the art is like for both.

      Personally, I find it very interchangeable. I open codex --yolo or claude with whatever there yolo flag is (have an alias).

    • edumucelli 45 minutes ago
      Not sure about the consensus, but during an entire week I have done every task on my workplace with both Opus 4.8 and GPT 5.5. GPT won hands down. I would even sometimes copy the plans and solutions (using different Git worktrees) from GPT and paste it on Opus and itself would say GPT plans were better. At that point I have migrated. Fable is not enabled in our workspace so I have not tried.

      Claude lost my trust around February this year when the plan would say nonsensical things as "delete this method" that was clearly a key method on that part of the codebase.

      For personal projects I am using Codex 20$ plan and when that is over I use DeepSeek which is insanely good for the cost.

    • 3371 32 minutes ago
      My experience is that Codex's auto review is extremely costly, with $20 on both sides, I can run CC with auto mode for longer than with Codex's auto review enabled. Also in my own experience Claude's usage is actually bigger than Codex, but I am not sure if that's due to I stick to 5.5 with Codex while keep Sonnet as the default to orchestrate other models in CC.
    • xur17 1 hour ago
      I personally use opencode so I can swap between models and try different options. I'd say I prefer claude (fable and opus 4.8) so far, but curious to see where gpt 5.6 lands.

      For personal stuff, I've been pretty happy with chatgpt's $20 plan. I believe it has considerably higher limits than claude's $20 plan, and it's enough for the personal stuff I play with (hermes, and some small coding stuff). Also allows me to keep up to date on openai models.

      • timcobb 1 hour ago
        The $20 GPT plan with GPT 5.5 lasted me, somehow, exactly one smallish fixup feature
    • bakies 1 hour ago
      I spent the last couple days switching because Anthropic keeps locking stuff behind API pricing. OpenAI lets you do anything with your sub right now. I'm building headless and web interfaces around Pi.dev. I had this previously with Claude Code but they are going to lock away all those features. I think the Claude does a better job at being proactive to solving things, but I'm going to keep tweaking my harness to nudge gpt to do more in it's turn. Not sure!
    • sidrag22 1 hour ago
      Personally, I started using openai models to mess with other harnesses. I was pretty oppositional to CC and how they don't let you kinda plug and play freely, or give transparency into -p usage with other harnesses. So i mix and match a bunch of openai and some chinese models im trying out into opencode. I keep hearing codex is great, on the tier of current CC, I've tried it and it just ate my entire 5 hour usage window looping without asking for clarification on something and none of it was usable. that was the only time i tried codex as i could got that same task done with maybe 20% of my window with my existing openai opencode workflow.

      I had put a decent amount of effort into setting up that initial codex attempt and it went so poorly that i've been entirely uninterested in trying again. This was maybe a month or so ago, and i know stuff moves fast, but for me, i like the models, dont care for the harness.

    • athrowaway3z 35 minutes ago
      They blocked Claude from being used in a different harness as well squeezed the usage like crazy. Switched to Codex and haven't cared since.

      Between the two the biggest difference by far is ... getting your harness / AGENTS.md / skills / tools set up right.

    • NiekvdMaas 1 hour ago
      In my experience, for coding Codex is definitely far ahead of Claude Code, even when using Fable 5 as a model.
      • postflopclarity 1 hour ago
        you have a very strange experience
        • arcanemachiner 10 minutes ago
          People work on different things, fail to mention their field of usage in the comments, and then misunderstand the experiences of others who do the same. Repeat ad nauseam.
    • dgritsko 1 hour ago
      I use Conductor pretty much exclusively and it makes it incredibly easy to try different models, even within the same workspace - definitely recommend giving it a shot. Whenever I'm forced to use the Claude Code app directly it just seems woefully inadequate compared to Conductor
    • urams 49 minutes ago
      If you can afford to test it seriously, running both in parallel, it's worth a test to see which you prefer. If you can't, don't bother. You're not likely missing anything since they are close to personal preference with most people I know who have meaningfully tried both preferring Claude
    • novaleaf 1 hour ago
      I sub both codex and claude at 20x. I like opus+fable more than gpt5.5 because it seems gpt tries to finish tasks by leaving any ambiguity unresolved. claude seems better at surfacing open questions.

      This is using the same AGENTS.md prompts, which were designed firstly for Claude use, so maybe it's something that could be optimized better if I understood gpt as well?

    • YuechenLi 51 minutes ago
      The answer is it depends. Claude's generally better at frontend and debugging tasks, while Codex is stronger at backend features and exploratory work. They have very different coding styles and thus very different strengths.
      • TranquilMarmot 37 minutes ago
        Any actual data backing this up? Or is this just your personal experience?
    • sk4rekr0w 1 hour ago
      Codex app is a much different experience than CC CLI. I would try it out for a couple days with the new model suite and see what you prefer after that.
    • giancarlostoro 1 hour ago
      Last time I tested Codex on a cheap plan, it barely lasted an hour? I think this was for the $20 plan. I was afraid to try the more expensive plan after that. Not sure, I might just outright rip my Claude Code bandaid if the current usage quotas do die off after the 17th or whatever date they said they would "return on".
    • indy 1 hour ago
      You wouldn't be leaving Claude Code, just trying something new. If you don't like it just resume using Claude.
    • rib3ye 1 hour ago
      It's not clear replies to this thread aren't openAI employees or incentivized influencers, but every benchmark has gpt-5.5 underperforming opus 4.8, sometimes by as much as 10%.

      Can they all be wrong/paid-off?

    • firemelt 18 minutes ago
      just try it you will back to codex because gpt is trash, I ask for refund under 7 hours
    • jghn 51 minutes ago
      I have found Claude Code to be so much better than other common harnesses that it's kept me solely in the Anthropic ecosystem.
    • timcobb 1 hour ago
      If you can afford it and you have something to justify the expense, I would get both. they're interesting to run side by side, you can hand things off from one to the other. Pretty neat. Unfortunately now I just want to have both :(
    • cmrdporcupine 1 hour ago
      I left Claude for Codex months ago. I was an early Claude Code adopter but I have found Codex consistently better since about the February time frame. And far more reliable.

      It's more diligent and empirical and results focused, and less creative. It sometimes needs a kick to avoid a Zeno's paradox of incremental steps to get to the goal. But it produces more reliable code with fewer race conditions, unhandled negative cases, etc.

      It's also better value from a $$ POV, or at least has been. This fluctuates a bit.

      You're also free to use your Codex subscription with other harnesses, like opencode, etc. Unlike Anthropic. Plays better with others.

    • catketch 1 hour ago
      Not sure there's going to be a consensus, but I can tell you that when i have codex review claude-written code, it finds important gaps and fixes. The reverse is also true. Both are powerful, but even better when used in combination
    • thebigspacefuck 1 hour ago
      IMO LMArena is the best benchmark that avoids benchmaxxing

      https://arena.ai/leaderboard/agent

      5.6 isn’t on there yet but Fable leads by a significant margin atm

      • TranquilMarmot 36 minutes ago
        The results here match up to my real-world experience using these models every day at work and switching between them regularly.
    • mountainriver 1 hour ago
      There was just a study showing that when presented blindly no one could tell the difference yet users were avid they could
      • hk__2 1 hour ago
        There _is_ a difference in the way Claude and GPT write. Last Friday I felt Opus was becoming dumb because it was writing like GPT.
    • arikrahman 1 hour ago
      For me the biggest shift was using Deepseek through an American provider with reasonix as the harness, making cache hits at a rate of practically free.
    • maxloh 1 hour ago
      I wish they open source their desktop app and built-in skills one day. That would be a final blow for me.
    • qaq 1 hour ago
      I use both especially for checking each others work. Pretty happy with results
    • saberience 1 hour ago
      They are both excellent but excel in different areas. Fable is super super proactive and great for doing a LOT of work with a single prompt, also for creative work.

      Codex is more details focused, often catches wonky bugs and correctness issues that Fable misses, feels more terse and less "friendly", more like a stern senior engineer versus a friendly talkative engineer (Claude). Codex is also better if you're already an engineer, Claude is better for non-engineers. I.e. Codex works better if you know exactly what you want and know the right way of explaining it.

    • wyre 1 hour ago
      Claude Code is a massively bloated agent harness.

      Try Pi: https://pi.dev/

      • blovescoffee 1 hour ago
        Pi is so “unbloated” that it’s extra effort to use. You can decide how much work to put into it. I get the trade off. But this is a big jump from CC. I’d recommend some middle ground like opencode.
        • lubujackson 1 hour ago
          Even simpler, use Cursor with any frontier model. I see others sweat to add enough context to Claude Code while Cursor has a ton of contextual awareness, uses subagents automatically and is significantly faster with no drop off I have found. I'm not sure why devs are so enamored with living in the CLI, but Cursor has one of those too.
          • blovescoffee 10 minutes ago
            Similar to running arch Linux. Many people do need to. But many people just like tinkering. Tinkering can lead to positive outcomes but it’s usually not “doing work”.
        • trollbridge 1 hour ago
          It's worth trying out OpenCode, then oh-my-pi, and also the commercial harnesses like Codex. (I haven't yet bothered to try Antigravity and have no interest in Gemini-cli now that it's not available except on expensive plans.)

          pi is also worth tinkering with, particularly if you have an eye towards automating some things.

    • 217 1 hour ago
      Consensus itself does NOT matter, omp is objectively the best harness for power users yet it has 0 hn posts about it, zero.

      You're fully free to use and try anything and without caring about what others think is right

      • ljm 41 minutes ago
        I figured pi itself would be the best harness because it's barebones and you make it what you want. omp is to pi what doom is to emacs is what lazyvim is to neovim.
      • Avicebron 50 minutes ago
        The fact that I thought that this was amp misspelled until i someone validate omp and the checked myself indicates it's a subjective assertion at best.
      • trollbridge 1 hour ago
        omp is really good.

        I have one non technical people in my firm using it. One is using it to assist with editing books, basically using it to gather up manuscripts from e-mail / Google Doc etc. submissions, and then switch models between a cheap one and Opus (for actually analysing the manuscript).

        The other non-technical person has done really surprising things with it AI, like a long-running GPT 5.5 Pro chat session which is basically her expense tracker - it has an .xlsx file "carried" in the chat, and she just tells ChatGPT (or scans a receipt) whenever she has a new expense, and then prompts it in natural language when she needs a report. I'm looking forward to seeing what she can do with omp.

      • financltravsty 33 minutes ago
        Absolutely. It's the only harness that is actually RSI and not run by idiots.
      • saberience 1 hour ago
        How can this be "objective"? Surely its subjective.

        I've tried a fuck load of harnesses but keep coming back to Codex as my harness.

      • joe_mamba 1 hour ago
        > omp is objectively the best harness for power users

        Care to detail this?

      • efficax 1 hour ago
        "objectively the best"?
        • saberience 1 hour ago
          Probably means subjectively according to his own opinion...
    • prospector1065 1 hour ago
      Try OpenCode and you can point it at either model
    • simianwords 1 hour ago
      Codex UI is way way way better than Claude Code

      - codex UI is much more responsive

      - i get feedback about the progress easily

      - the tool calls and results are very legible, I can click them and see the progress

      - no one talks about this but the tool call and response notification are handled much more elegantly in Codex. In Claude Code, it is handled in a clunky way using loops which always causes some delay

      - you can steer the conversation midway in Codex

      - /side is underrated (/btw is the equivalent and is much worse in Claude Code)

      - I have to admit subagents are handled better in Claude Code

    • wahnfrieden 1 hour ago
      With the exception of Fable which is going away anyway, Codex is better especially after the last couple Opus releases. It’s also no longer slower than Claude.

      You get much more generous usage from the 20x plan.

      And you get far better uptime.

      If benchmarks and early tester impressions are accurate, you also get access to Fable level capability at greater speed and lower cost (included in subscription).

      • petesergeant 1 hour ago
        > Fable which is going away anyway

        $2 says nah. You can't take Fable away in a week where GPT-5.6 and Grok 4.5 launch, if you want to hold on to customers.

        • mortenjorck 50 minutes ago
          The fact that they already extended subscription Fable once would suggest it won’t be solely locked behind API next week, but at the same time it really does look like they are doing everything they can to avoid serving it continuously at scale.

          Knowing Anthropic, this unfortunately might end up meaning a quietly quantized Fable on subscription.

          • wild_egg 14 minutes ago
            Can anyone explain this "quietly quantized" model idea to me from a business perspective?

            Coca-Cola doesn't "quietly water down" its product to save a few bucks. They know people will take a sip, say "oh that's not what i wanted", and go buy a Pepsi.

            If they serve me a quantized Fable, I'm just going to think Fable sucks and go get my tokens elsewhere. What's the point?

    • erichocean 1 hour ago
      I use Claude for planning, writing CRs, and code review.

      Codex writes all of the code, no exceptions.

      Works great, especially when you ask Claude to break up large CRs into roughly 10 minutes of Codex work each.

      • silksowed 13 minutes ago
        Same here. I find the design, architecture, system design discussion to be better on Claude, but after Opus 4.6 I switched over to Codex for actual coding and love the results. I use both via the CLI and generally tell Claude to output the result of our decisions as a markdown that will be easy to read and implement by an agentic coding tool. Then I fire up Codex and read said markdown as the input of the session and way to build all the appropriate context needed. I see this as a way to step into letting the agents go run on their own and interact with each other, but I still like to steer so I put these manual steps in the flow. Letting the agents go off on their own and one shot big chunks is not reliable enough yet imo.
    • znpy 1 hour ago
      > I'm hesitant to leave Claude Code behind for something new.

      Codex and Claude Code are not mutually exclusive, you can use both.

    • petesergeant 1 hour ago
      In my projects, Claude writes and Codex reviews, and I've had a lot of code I've been very happy with out of that, although as of today, Grok _also_ reviews, and finds interesting new stuff.
    • ralusek 1 hour ago
      I use both constantly for different things. You don't need to be a one-model Andy
    • Razengan 20 minutes ago
      I've subscribed to ChatGPT/Codex for over a year and tried a Claude sub twice 1 month each, with a gap of several months in between.

      I tried them both side by side, mostly for reviewing existing Godot/GDScript code, or sometimes generating Swift Mac apps, including converting ancient artifacts I wrote in Visual Basic on Windows

      Codex was consistently better than Claude: https://i.imgur.com/jYawPDY.png

      Besides the useless "This is good" findings while reviewing and the excessive "oops you are right" backtracking, Claude's atrocious UX and borderline "spyware" make me never want to try an Anthropic product again for a long long while.

    • moomoo11 1 hour ago
      [dead]
    • Jtarii 1 hour ago
      Literally every top model is identical and anyone saying otherwise is engaging in astrology.
      • Supermancho 1 hour ago
        The outputs, ui, and overall behavior (tokenization) are not identical.
      • postflopclarity 1 hour ago
        anybody saying they're identical clearly doesn't use both...
        • iugtmkbdfil834 43 minutes ago
          Honestly, I would even push it further. People who would claim that don't use either one.
  • eig 1 hour ago
    Funny to see that they did not include Fable 5 in their GeneBench and LifeSciBench comparisons because "it does not answer advanced biology questions and refuses the majority of questions in this eval".

    Winner by default!

    • inciampati 1 hour ago
      This is a major reason why I and a number of biologists I've talked to have canceled their anthropic accounts recently. Not working is not working.
    • midtake 10 minutes ago
      You shouldn't know too much about biology, stupid human. You might live your life in an unexploitable way.
    • paxys 1 hour ago
      Where’s the lie?
  • mNovak 33 minutes ago
    >> approximately 700,000 A100e GPU hours of black-box automated red teaming

    Amusing that they use A100e as the reference point to sound impressive. Different ways you could make that conversion, but based on FP4 FLOPs (yes it's disadvantageous to A100, that's the point), that's something like 200hr on a GB300 NVL72 rack.

    Not nothing either, but far less astounding sounding than 700k hrs.

    • stavros 24 minutes ago
      Wait, what do you mean? 700k A100e hours are equal to 200 hours of a GB300 NVL72 rack? One GB300 NVL72, 72-GPU rack has equal processing power to 3500 A100e GPUs?
      • pizzafeelsright 16 minutes ago
        maybe? ai says about *8.3 days* of continuous runtime on a single GB300 NVL72 rack

        about a sprint's level of effort.

  • mchinen 1 hour ago
    The frontier graph on all these benchmark are extremely in favor of 5.6 Sol over Fable, more than the best model comparisons in previous iterations.

    I'd like to know how cherry-picked this is, and what tests it performed less overwhelmingly in, but I suppose that info is not going to be on this post.

    If it pans out to be as good as it says, that's great. On the other hand, if this model is not overwhelmingly impressive over Fable, I will lose what remaining trust I had in these announcements.

    • thurn 1 hour ago
      They do disclose that they scored much lower than Fable on SWEBench Pro, which is a pretty high-quality benchmark. I think it's partially just about what they choose to emphasize...
    • therobots927 1 hour ago
      The proof is in the pudding and these benchmark stats will only work for so long before people lose interest.
    • enraged_camel 1 hour ago
      The charts are also extremely difficult to parse. They seem auto-generated. Dataset coloring is atrocious.

      Regarding your main point, yes, I agree. My impression (as someone who uses both Codex and Claude Code daily) is that OpenAI does a fair amount of benchmaxxing.

  • arizen 1 hour ago
    "GPT‑5.6 delivers a step change in design judgment. With only high-level direction, GPT‑5.6 creates tasteful, ergonomic, and functional interfaces. Its stronger computer-use capabilities let it inspect and refine the rendered result—not just generate the underlying code or content—so it can catch visual and functional issues and apply finishing touches before handing the work back."

    This one is really promising, as it may allow to close major gap with Claude in design/UI skills

    • silksowed 8 minutes ago
      Computer-use is a big limitation that my 2015 Macbook Pro cannot handle. I find the Codex cli says it looks at the end output artifact but so often it fails to refine it into acceptable form. If it could use my computer screen and visual inputs for review, it might be able to actually design documents/powerpoints/etc. I'm juicing everything I can out of the 11 year old laptop and I'm honestly impressed at what it can still do.
    • HyperL0gi 16 minutes ago
      +1. I've been only using Sonnet/Opus these days for UI work because GPT 5.5 just can't do any of that. Its just really terrible. Eager to give this one a try.
    • GenerWork 45 minutes ago
      Agreed, I’m looking forward to trying it out. I think that the rise of visual design skills that are pretty clearly targeted towards Codex users has lit a bit of a fire under their butts.
  • 2001zhaozhao 8 minutes ago
    Huh, a good alternative just as anthropic's 50% weekly subscription subsidy is ending this weekend. Time to see if it's benchmaxxed or actually a strong leap over GPT5.5.

    They also seem to really not care about alignment, or care about it in the wrong way. It's entirely missing in the blogpost and there are some concerning bits in the model card, seemingly treating CoT controllability as something to be "investigated" rather than the warning sign it's supposed to be.

  • aliasxneo 57 minutes ago
    "We've extended usage of Claude Fable" message incoming any day now.
    • ftchd 21 minutes ago
      They reset all usage half an hour ago. It's back to 0% per week and session. No specifically Fable related.
      • halfmatthalfcat 17 minutes ago
        Hahaha seeing this play out in real time is absolutely incredible.
  • lukebuehler 8 minutes ago
    Very interesting: I wonder if the RL approach is diverging between Anthropic and OAI?

    I noticed that Fable uses shell tools almost exclusively (even to search and edit files), compared to previous Anthropic models.

    Having run some experiments with 5.6, I notice that it uses built-in file systems and provider native tools much more (not shell tools), compared to previous OAI models.

  • Jcampuzano2 1 hour ago
    I really wish there was just an easy guide on when to use Sol vs Terra vs Luna, and it just moves further into confusing territory when it comes to naming.

    The naming convention is especially difficult to decipher depending on what your native language is. Of course a latin language speaker might be able to easily determine oh yeah each one is slightly bigger than the other but I still think it borderlines too confusing.

    That aside all the numbers look amazing, and I'll be happy to probably main this alongside grok-4.5 for a while comparing the two on price and efficiency.

    I vastly prefer the direction that OpenAI seems to be going with token efficiency and performance compared to Anthropic who seems to be moving towards a world where you just token-max as much as possible ignoring any and all costs.

    • jstummbillig 1 hour ago
      Why would you need a guide for that now? We long had to pick different models (and thinking levels) by task and feel.
      • Jcampuzano2 1 hour ago
        Previously it was much more obvious which model to reach for depending on your use case because they had the mini and nano naming conventions.

        Getting rid of that seems like a step back. Just a personal nit though.

        I've seen buzz about this elsewhere as well but to me effort levels seem more like spend limits disguised with another word. I don't think they should even exist.

      • bigyabai 1 hour ago
        The naming convention is bizarre and doesn't really mean anything to normies. Trying to pick between "Sol" and "Terra" is like asking the average person if they want the Max or the Ultra chip.
        • minimaxir 30 minutes ago
          What about Haiku, Sonnet, and Opus?
        • slekker 49 minutes ago
          The sun is bigger than earth which is bigger than the moon, it's pretty simple really
          • bigyabai 35 minutes ago
            Which is cheaper to use? The size euphemism is a really roundabout description vs "Nano" and "Pro" for the layperson.
    • asadm 59 minutes ago
      it's simple: unless trivial TOIL, always use the highest at ultra max settings.
      • paxys 27 minutes ago
        Okay Richie Rich
    • taytus 1 hour ago
      You don’t know what sol means? You don’t understand the difference in sizes between Terra and sol? I’m genuinely asking.
      • Someone1234 52 minutes ago
        That isn't what "genuinely asking" looks like, you're criticizing using "questions" as cover. It isn't subtle, nor is it constructive.

        I agree with them, Sol, Terra, and Luna are confusing names. They mean the same thing as GPT-5.6-Max, GPT-5.6-Plus, and GPT-5.6-Fast but require base knowledge for an analogy.

        It feels like it was adding by the marketing department.

      • Jcampuzano2 59 minutes ago
        Did you not read the second sentence? Obviously I know what sol is given my first language being Spanish. I'm just speaking in a general sense that it can be confusing for others.

        I already know plenty who had no clue what the difference between Terra and Luna would be.

        • ealready_value 54 minutes ago
          My first instinct was Sol > Luna > Terra, since Sol is the farthest away, then Luna, and Terra is the closest. Size was not my first instinct. Or should Terra be the best model because its closest to people, then Luna because there have been people on it, then Sol be the worst because no human has been there?
          • endemic 20 minutes ago
            The naming scheme is too "clever."
      • adamrezich 56 minutes ago
        Sure—so, is Sol 109.2x better than Terra? Or 1.304x10^6 better?
  • cbg0 1 hour ago
    5.6 Terra (mid tier model) as good as Fable on DeepSWE while cheaper than Opus API pricing. Seems like a homerun.
    • osti 1 hour ago
      GPT usually performs better on DeepSWE while Claude does better on FrontierCode. These two coding benchmarks are pretty much the only ones right now that's still worth taking a look at imo.
    • DetroitThrow 1 hour ago
      DeepSWE seems to strongly, strongly prefer ChatGPT models. There were also major flaws in its methodology pointed out recently, that overlap strongly with the flaws OpenAI pointed out in its SWE Verified report.

      I use both ChatGPT and Claude for engineering work on a daily basis, touching performance critical code to application backends to frontend work, and I've found that DeepSWE scores don't reflect my reality when I assess high quality output from the models/harnesses.

      Not that Opus always beats GPT 5.5., but that 5.5 is ahead of Opus on a general benchmark smells off to me.

  • twothreeone 1 hour ago
    Wow the video is much better.. the PR spend clearly went up a lot. Mainly just showing "real people" doing "real stuff".
  • thimabi 25 minutes ago
    I’m interested in knowing how each of GPT 5.6’s variants fare in non-English writing/translation tasks.

    GPT 5.5 has a tendency to write English calques and non-idiomatic prose in other languages. Although that can be somewhat tamed with detailed instructions and a corpus of confusing terms, the model’s output often reads like a literal translation rather than native prose. Since I notice these issues most clearly in languages I know well, it makes me reluctant to trust the model’s output in languages in which I’m less proficient.

    Ironically, ChatGPT began as a simple text-generation tool, but much of its offerings and benchmarks now focus on coding and agentic workflows, while leaving behind what made it notable in the first place.

  • sd9 1 hour ago
    I haven't tried an OpenAI model for a long time, but with Fable going to API pricing soon this might be enough to get me to try codex.
  • big_toast 56 minutes ago
    In the introduction video they say 5.6 Sol autonomously post-trained 5.6 Luna. Curious what this means.
    • vibcdingenjoyer 30 minutes ago
      Sounds like they gave it a goal to hit certain benchmarks and just let it have its way with the base Luna model.
  • hereme888 43 minutes ago
    I use 5.5 a ton. It's immediately apparent that 5.6 is truly a better model. Hope they don't lobotomize it later.
  • Tenoke 1 hour ago
    Is any of those comparisons about Pro vs non-Pro (Pro is only available in $100+ plans)? I am curious about that but I think Sol, Terra, Luna are different sizes of it without the Pro part, and I want to know how much worse do I have it on the $20 plan compared to if I upgrade.
  • WarmWash 1 hour ago
    8% on ARC-AGI-3, they actually got some traction going...
    • eugene3306 40 minutes ago
      note that ARC-AGI-3 has its rules changed.

      before today all the contestants were capped at $10k

  • CjHuber 58 minutes ago
    > Instead of requiring developers to script every step or passing every tool response back through the model, Programmatic Tool Calling in the Responses API can filter large amounts of intermediate data, retain only what matters, and adapt its workflow along the way.

    this seems very interesting

  • lukebuehler 42 minutes ago
    Oh man, I love capitalism spoiling us here. I was just enjoying my extra Fable credits, now I'll switch to using 5.6 this weekend. I was planning to ration my Anthropic credits, I guess now I do not have to. And I was half wondering if exactly this would happen: right when Fable usage credits were starting to kick in for people, OAI swoops in and takes the puck. As much the AI craze is crazy, this play by play part is pretty fun.
    • sidrag22 36 minutes ago
      top it off with anthropic stressing about the release and resetting usage to 0 for the week just now.
    • halfmatthalfcat 15 minutes ago
      Anthropic just reset all limits, including Fable. Capitalism is spoiling us.
  • GodelNumbering 1 hour ago
    Dirac (https://github.com/dirac-run/dirac, https://dirac.run/) now supports gpt-5.6. This thing does now seem to be on the chatGPT/codex accounts yet.

    UPDATE: it is now available in chatGPT account also, they rolled it out

  • mchusma 1 hour ago
    Looks like a great set of models, but there are about 20 different thinking/model levels here in this family and they are very complex to pick the right one for the task

    E.g. for GeneBench Pro, it looks like you would always use GPT-5.6 Sol over Terra/Luna, its pareto optimal.

    For Agents Last Exam, you would maybe want Luna, then Terra, then Luna, then Sol as you increasingly budget for tasks.

    I feel that there may need to be a new auto mode in many of these cases. It selects the best model and thinking given a particular problem.

    Feels like it's going to have to go that way eventually, because here we have about 20 different model and thinking levels you could use, and they're not obvious which ones are right for the given use case.

  • paul7986 3 minutes ago
    For writing GPT which i was subscribed to Fall 2024 to March 2026 (laid off) is superior to Gemini. Been using Gemini since March mostly and they offered a $10 a month plan so i took it. Though today realizing GPT is superior to help me write I am back to being a paying customer. Im in full swing mode to get back into the job market (get the heck away from UI/UX which is now a stupid career in terms of number of jobs out there and in the future there will continue to be less) pivoting into product management (can vibe code anything now) and or customer relations. Hopefully GPT helps me with this pivot and Im again gainfully employed!
  • sidcool 1 hour ago
    The claims are pretty bold. I think 5.6 may exceed Fable.
  • dwa3592 26 minutes ago
    This marketing video on the page is nice!! can't wait for the hardware to get cheaper to live the AI life i wanna live.
  • laichzeit0 30 minutes ago
    So glad Fable limits just got reset. Thanks OpenAI.
  • m3h 1 hour ago
    We have an official pelican on a bicycle from the OpenAI livestream:

    https://imgshare.cc/mz9xwut3

    • BrokenCogs 1 hour ago
      holy moly it's in THREE dimensions!

      AGI solved

      • SirMaster 1 hour ago
        So it's failing epically because it generated a tricycle instead of a bicycle?
        • minimaxir 55 minutes ago
          The livestream presenter goofed and said the test is typically a tricycle, so I wonder if that's just a coverup.
          • paxys 22 minutes ago
            The site they showed had the pelican riding a number of things, including a bicycle and another pelican (no, not in that way).
  • realty_geek 1 hour ago
    Wow, the "Agents' Last Exam" graph looks unreal!
    • alimhaq 1 hour ago
      I mean the y axis is deceptive to make it seem like greater gains since it starts at 30%, when in reality the differences aren't great.

      Even worse, it's not a fair comparison: they purposefully just used "adaptive" instead of "max" for Fable.

      What about the graph looked so unreal to you?

    • therobots927 1 hour ago
      That’s because it’s bullshit
  • karma_daemon 1 hour ago
    I wish model launches were like proper product releases

    it's impossible to _try_ it out on release!

    it's not on their codex subscription, or the web/mobile chatgpt interfaces, or aws bedrock, etc. I just cant find a working endpoint with the latest model after they announce

    • patapong 10 minutes ago
      GPT-5.6 Terra just showed up in Codex for me.
    • O5vYtytb 40 minutes ago
      The announcement says they're rolling it out over the next 24 hours or so. I think it's reasonable to do a slow-roll-out release for one of the most used products on the internet.
  • samuelknight 1 hour ago
    There is an issue on the page that causes the benchmark tables to get cut off. If you highlight and drag right you can see a few more models like Gemini and Claude Opus. It's also interesting that they introduced explicit caching, which is something that only Anthropic had for a long time.
  • vamsiraju 41 minutes ago
    prompts -> loops -> slingshots?

    Its an extremely capable model. I think the way we need to approach works shifts again. We need to get our harnesses/workflows to let it gather some momentum on the first couple rounds but then we also need to structure it so that it can slingshot and accomplish the long range goal.

  • neuropacabra 44 minutes ago
    Is it available in EU? I only see 5.5 still :-(
  • vatsachak 36 minutes ago
    I wonder what increment of progress will be achieved by the next billion dollars
  • vinhnx 1 hour ago
  • big_toast 1 hour ago
    The cost & output token charts are useful but I wish I could view them more like a 3D surface. Like the CS:APP memory mountain charts.

    I wonder how long model size and effort will be a few discrete points instead of continuous.

  • philip1209 1 hour ago
    Will this run on Cerebas? I'm really looking forward to that.
    • paxys 55 minutes ago
      Sam Altman confirmed during the initial limited release that Sol will run on Cerebras at 750 tok/sec.
  • jstummbillig 1 hour ago
    "GPT‑5.6 is available starting today across ChatGPT, Codex, and the OpenAI API. The rollout is starting globally now and will continue gradually toward full availability over the next 24 hours."
    • terramex 54 minutes ago
      I am on Plus subscription and see Terra and Luna in Codex, but no sign of Sol. Will it be available only on Pro plans?
      • lostmsu 26 minutes ago
        I an on Pro and it still returns "The 'gpt-5.6' model is not supported when using Codex with a ChatGPT account"

        UPD from announcement: "The rollout is starting globally now and will continue gradually toward full availability over the next 24 hours."

    • enraged_camel 51 minutes ago
      My Codex app got upgraded to the new unified ChatGPT app. I don't see Sol available though. Only Terra and Luna. I'm on the Pro plan. Anyone else see it?
      • RobinL 48 minutes ago
        Same, no Sol (i'm on plus)
  • fractorial 43 minutes ago
    Sounds like a perfect fit for a minimal or bespoke harness?
  • bryceneal 1 hour ago
    I find that 5.5 gives me far fewer refusals than Anthropic models for security and reverse engineering work. I hope the same is true for 5.6.
  • hyperknot 37 minutes ago
    > GPT‑5.6 also introduces more predictable prompt caching, including support for explicit cache breakpoints (opens in a new window) and a 30-minute minimum cache life.

    Great to read they are moving away from the 5 minute cache defaults. Hopefully other providers follow soon!

  • luciana1u 1 hour ago
    GPT-5.6 Sol, Terra, and Luna. at this rate GPT-6 will be named after a parking lot and GPT-7 after whatever Elon names his next kid.
  • artisin 1 hour ago
    I wish they had kept their previous sensible naming convention instead of this celestial Sol, Terra, and Luna mumbo-jumbo
  • golangdev 7 minutes ago
    good alternative to anthropic
  • hereme888 1 hour ago
    So is 5.5-Daybreak still relevant for cyber security give. 5.6 capabilities?
  • diwank 15 minutes ago
    i'm not happy with how openai is trying to pit 5.6 sol as a cheaper equivalent to fable here

    for one thing, they said that on AA, sol is "within one point of fable" at 58.9 vs 59.9 but don't clarify that the latter is with safeguards where ~8% of the tasks got routed to opus

    i'm not rooting for either and genuinely think that the token efficiency and cheaper price are important but this sort of thing just feels disingenuous :-/

  • kubb 1 hour ago
    They have a fantastic media team.
  • hughw 1 hour ago
    If it's not dangerous enough to be classified as WMD by USG, who's interested.
  • newfriend 1 hour ago
    >Even at medium reasoning, it beats Fable 5 by 11.4 points at roughly one-quarter the estimated cost.

    Sounds great.

    Also latency looks very good.

  • maxdo 49 minutes ago
    cursor benchmarks with GPT 5.6 in picture, a good reason to stop using opus.

    https://cursor.com/evals

    The good news you don't have to send your dollars to China to fund ai dictatorship, in russia, north korea, african countries and south america.

  • ddxv 53 minutes ago
    I'm disappointed these models continue to be closed source and so expensive.

    Open weight models being 10x or more cheaper is just so much more of an unlock than incremental gains for me.

  • nharziro 1 hour ago
    where is it? Still not accessible...
    • jstummbillig 1 hour ago
      "GPT‑5.6 is available starting today across ChatGPT, Codex, and the OpenAI API. The rollout is starting globally now and will continue gradually toward full availability over the next 24 hours."
  • OutOfHere 35 minutes ago
    Like the last time, again they failed to note whether there is an Instant model or when it might become available.
  • Razengan 37 minutes ago
    Just a day before my $100 subscription expires, perfect
  • saberience 1 hour ago
    "On Agents’ Last Exam (opens in a new window), an evaluation of long-running professional workflows across 55 fields, GPT‑5.6 Sol sets a new high of 53.6, eclipsing Claude Fable 5 (adaptive reasoning) by 13.1 points. Even at medium reasoning, it beats Fable 5 by 11.4 points at roughly one-quarter the estimated cost. That efficiency extends to smaller models, which are essential to making intelligence more abundant and affordable: GPT‑5.6 Terra and GPT‑5.6 Luna outperform Fable 5 at around one-sixteenth the cost. "

    Some pretty big claims and results! Excited to see how it feels during usage.

    I use Fable and 5.5 extensively and I still find both have a place in my toolkit, i.e. Fable IS good but it isn't perfect, and it's still better to play them off against each other. I have Fable and 5.5 write plans and have them adversarially review each other's plans.

    Having this amount of competition in the coding model space is good for all of us.

  • browski 1 hour ago
    Here's me using a Gemini chat log scraper (from Gdrive) then dumping my prompt+Gemini response into local AI

    Never go over the free limits in Gemini Pro.

    Gemini is great at research and architecture, and my 30 years experience in programming everything; for fun or work; means together there is little to no code slop.

    Add to project repo some git submodules of reference source code; boom, bobs your uncle

    Zero reason to sign up for OAI or Claude. With employers realizing the costs are more than employees, local models getting more powerful, and models in chips just a few years out, neither of the one note LLM companies without diversified services and R&D portfolios gonna last

  • gozucito 1 hour ago
    The meat of the report for SWEs:

    SWE-Bench Pro Sol: 64.6% Fable: 80% Opus: 69.2% (!!!!)

    So, it still trails Opus, significantly, and is not a next-gen coding model like Mythos/Fable 5.

    Disappointing to say the least, but somewhat expected.

    • osti 1 hour ago
      SWE-Bench pro is pretty much useless now even though many ppl still look at it. OpenAI published a report yesterday saying so as well. Only look at DeepSWE and FrontierCode right now for coding imo.
      • SirMaster 1 hour ago
        Amazing, a company that does poorly in a benchmark says that benchmark is useless...
        • osti 53 minutes ago
          SWE-bench series just aren't that great by today's standard, even Anthropic previously stated Claude had memorized solutions for the non Pro version of the benchmark, I suspect the recent increase in the score for the Pro version probably also had similar behaviors.

          But anyway, I think it's pretty useless to look at SWE Bench's now when other way better benchmarks exist.

    • sk4rekr0w 1 hour ago
      You've overstated the conclusion. The SWE-bench series has had issues since its inception.

      OpenAI no longer recommends SWE-Bench-Pro as a benchmark: https://openai.com/index/separating-signal-from-noise-coding...

    • paxys 1 hour ago
      Makes sense why they released an entire study yesterday discrediting SWE-bench Pro.
      • osti 1 hour ago
        And they'd be right, it's an almost saturated benchmark where even some subpar open source models score very well on. And most models are clustered within a small range so it really doesn't tell you much.
    • CuriouslyC 1 hour ago
      [dead]
  • simianwords 1 hour ago
    > On the Artificial Analysis Coding Agent Index, GPT‑5.6 Sol with max reasoning sets a new state of the art at 80, 2.8 points above Fable 5, while using less than half the output tokens, taking less than half the time, and costing about one-third less.

    > That advantage extends across the family: Terra performs just above Fable 5, while Luna outperforms Opus 4.8; each does so in roughly one-third of the time, with about half as many output tokens, and at approximately one-quarter the estimated cost.

    Wow. I don't believe it. Every indication and twitter post told me that Fable is much more intelligent than Sol and here we are told that even Terra outperforms Fable?

    Not only that, Sol doesn't even come with run time classifiers. So it is even more suspicious.

    What's even stranger is that OpenAI is directly referencing a competitor in this direct way.

  • bearmania 1 hour ago
    If OpenAI can add all the features from CC into Codex i’ll gladly switch.
    • bel8 1 hour ago
      Which features?
    • OutOfHere 52 minutes ago
      You posted the same comment twice.
  • therobots927 1 hour ago
    Do they expect us this model is 15ppt more accurate at half the price of fable? What’s going on?
  • dude250711 1 hour ago
    Not available - checked and it's not there.
    • tedsanders 1 hour ago
      As usual, even though GPT-5.6 is releasing today, the rollout in ChatGPT and Codex will be gradual over many hours so that we can make sure service remains stable for everyone (same as our previous launches). We usually start with Pro/Enterprise accounts and then work our way down to Plus. We know it's slightly annoying to have to wait a random amount of time, but we do it this way to keep service maximally stable.

      The timescale is typically hours not minutes, so if you don't see it now, I'd try again later today.

      We mention it will be a gradual rollout over the next 24 hours in the Availability section at the bottom of the blog but I admit it's pretty buried.

      (I work at OpenAI.)

    • efficax 51 minutes ago
      on Plus I see Terra and Luna, but not Sol
    • trollbridge 1 hour ago
      It's available in Cursor now.
    • cactusplant7374 1 hour ago
      They have really been stringing us along for the past few weeks.
  • tipiirai 1 hour ago
    Thought Fable was great
  • bearmania 59 minutes ago
    if OpenAI adds all the features from CC into Codex, i’ll gladly switch.
    • gavino 51 minutes ago
      What features are you missing? That you can't add through skills?
  • willchis 1 hour ago
    The marketing team must've done research that said "people are starting to think that you guys are evil-water-stealing-lay-off-loving-bubble-bursting scumbags" and decided to really lean into the small family business and happy font vibes!
  • infraredshift 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • m3h 57 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • fgeytk2 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • poolnoodle 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
    • minimaxir 1 hour ago
      Then why comment?
      • Mistletoe 1 hour ago
        Apathy is a valid feeling to these incremental improvements touted as vital and amazing and worth paying for.
  • enraged_camel 1 hour ago
    CTRL-F: Fable

    15 hits

    Holy shit. They must be feeling very threatened by Fable if they're spending this much energy talking about it in the release notes for their own model.

    • cbg0 1 hour ago
      In the past they received a lot of hate for not comparing to the competition.
    • BrokenCogs 1 hour ago
      yikes - looks like you need to go back to stats school

      gemini - 13 hits

      opus - 18 hits

      So they are more threatened by opus than fable, or are they almost as threatened by gemini as they are by fable?

      • enraged_camel 1 hour ago
        The second paragraph has four mentions of Fable. I think that makes my case pretty clearly.
    • Laurel1234 55 minutes ago
      Anthropic fumble of Fable's release will go down in the history books, makes sense for OpenAI to run with it.
    • therobots927 1 hour ago
      Apparently it significant outperforms fable on both an intelligence and cost index.

      I don’t believe it at all and I don’t think anyone else does either.

      • trollbridge 1 hour ago
        I believe that it outperformed it on benchmarks.
    • simianwords 55 minutes ago
      Downvoted comment but I did find this comparison aggressive and tacky.
  • system2 1 hour ago
    At this point, they are just changing the decimals to stay relevant and in the news.
    • dude250711 1 hour ago
      Anthropic should be grateful OpenAI did not borrow "Epic" and "Legend".
      • system2 58 minutes ago
        I expect OpenAI names to be "fabulous", "glorious", "empowered", "delicious" etc.
  • rvz 1 hour ago
    Most importantly, the cost:

    > GPT‑5.6 is priced per 1M tokens across three model sizes: Sol is $5 input / $30 output; Terra is $2.50 input / $15 output; and Luna is $1 input / $6 output.

    Just as expensive as Fable 5. But of course, another slot machine upgrade but the costs will keep going up and the open weight models from china will continue to race everyone else to $0.

    Looking forward to the next version of GLM, Qwen, Deepseek and Minimax.

    • celesian 1 hour ago
      That's wrong. GPT 5.6 Sol looks to have the same price as GPT 5.5, apart from a new pricing fee for cache writes. Fable 5 is $10 input / $50 output.
    • therobots927 1 hour ago
      Also watching deepseek closely. Seems like US frontier labs only know how to throw money at things as opposed to actually make smart improvements to the algorithms.
      • trollbridge 1 hour ago
        To be fair, DeepSeek doubled prices during the peak Chinese workday. (Which admittedly doesn't affect me much.)
  • I_am_tiberius 1 hour ago
    The way they talk about cyber security fixes makes clear that they are in bed with the government in order to get ahead of Anthropic.
    • culi 1 hour ago
      All of them closely collaborate with the government. LLMs are a national security priority and are vetted. Claude AI was used by Palantir's Maven to target the Minab school that led to a triple tap strike killing over 150 schoolchildren.